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Old 04-13-2012, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Just thought this was worth repeating.

Acknowledging that the authors of the bible were fallible human beings is NOT calling God fallible. When did Paul or any other biblical author become synonymous with God? And, too, why is it necessary to discard everything someone wrote simply because they were fallible human beings. With any other book we read, we feel free to agree with what rings true and dismiss what doesn't ... but with the bible it has to be all or nothing?
RESPONSE:

Perhaps you are missing the point. Is the Bible authored by God or not?

In short, does it differ from any of the world's major religions holy books?

Harry Potter contains some truth also, but I don't think anyone considered it divinely inspired.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:33 AM
 
15,010 posts, read 7,534,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Perhaps you are missing the point. Is the Bible authored by God or not?
No, its authored by people as all books are.

Quote:
In short, does it differ from any of the world's major religions holy books?
Sure it differs. They all differ from each other on many points, and converge on some.


Quote:
Harry Potter contains some truth also, but I don't think anyone considered it divinely inspired.
Books are written for various purposes, some purely for entertainment ... I think we can all agree on that. But even fictional works can have profound insights into the human condition and, I think, even inspiration about or from God.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Sorry. If the writers of the Bible were actually divinely inspired, they themselves would not make errors.


"Hence, because the Holy Ghost employed men as His instruments, we cannot therefore say that it was these inspired instruments who, perchance, have fallen into error, and not the primary author. For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture." (PD)
And this quote is from whom? Fallible human beings who appear to have gotten something wrong.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Oregon
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JGHORTON posted:

No. They went by the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible. Jesus failed to fulfill a number of messianic prophecies. Hence, the Jews (and many others) cannot accept him as the messiah. (However, the "misunderstanding" ploy is frequently used).
>>And what words are those .... There are over 300 specific messianic prophecies fulfilled by Christ (modern computers have calculated that the odds against any one person in history accurately fulfilling even 8 of these prophecies is about 10 to the 30th power. Further, Christ declared Himself to be the Messiah ... and scripture repeatedly confirms it. It also says that 'the eyes of the Jews were blinded to the truth.' <<

RESPONSE:

I've heard this assertion but never seen any evidence presented. Perhaps you can.

Are "prophecies" such as Matthew's "He shall be called a Nazorene" counted as a "fulfilled" prophecy??

The trouble with that one is that there is no such prophecy in the Old Testament, nor even any mention of Nazareth itself.

And, of course, it's easy to write prophecies after the event has occurred.

So now you only have to claim 299 prophecies were fulfilled.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-13-2012 at 07:38 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
And this quote is from whom? Fallible human beings who appear to have gotten something wrong.
Yep. Just like those who wrote the Bible.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
Yep. Just like those who wrote the Bible.

Yes. So what are we arguing about then?
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
No it is not adequatly explained. Fail.



His purpose Acts 22 was completely at odds with what he was doing in Galatians (which begs a question itself) - you fail to realize the tone of Paul's point and detailed chronology in combating a lie regarding his visits, relationship, and dealings with the Jerusalem Chruch - it not the same thing nor is in the same tone. Thr eason Paul is so adamant is because those deatails are very important to his arguement - Acts 9 does not seem to think so.



Or not. Why is this omission the very thing that Paul uses to correct the wrong info about those trips? So much so as to take an oath - seems pretty significant just to omit it.



To the reasonable, unbiased, and non-dissonanced person.



Exactly! And yet it was this non omission by Paul, because of its importance, that leads to dicrepencies in the number of trips Paul takes to Jerusalem not to mention the many other details I am pointing out. Interesting!



As much as he wants as long as it does not create discrepancies as this.



You fail to realize what is being said. You further just guess by using the word 'apparently' when no where is that the Sciptural case. Barnabas is part of the Jerusalem Church and does not go to Antioch until aftert his 1st visit. Nice try. If Paul passingly says he saw James (and he is an apostle not of the Twelve) then why not Barnabas the one who took him to Peter and James? Acts refers to Barnabas as an apostle. You have no answer.



You completely misunderstood the point. The point was that the Jerusalem church sided with the Hebrews more than the Hellenists and Paul's disputing with them was a point they could use to shore-up the narrative that Paul and the Jerusalem church were in unity and not in tension. Not so.



Really, so you think when Paul says he was not known by face to the churches in Judea after he left Jerusalem and Acts saying that he went in and out among them and disputed with Hellinists that this is all smooth as butter - Gottcha! And this is just a few points.



I do not assume that - just do not let there be any discrepencies when doing so. Does not look like they pulled that off.



Uhm! Jerusalem is in Judea. Besides, Paul says that he confered with no one except Peter and that he only saw James. He did not meet any other disciples or apostles, nor did he try to join them and fellowship with them, nor did he go a preach. The tone of Galatians is completely different than this. Paul's purpose was to go and see Peter nothing else like Acts describes.
Post #95 'No. Unknown by sight to the churches at Judea (Gal 1:22). Paul had moved about freely in Jerusalem during his brief visit but had not gone down into Judea. But that is explained here. Galatians 1:22 Bible Commentary '

That should have read that Paul had not gone into other parts of Judea as per the comment below.

Barnes Notes on the Bible'
And was unknown by face ... - Paul had visited Jerusalem only, and he had formed no acquaintance with any of the churches in the other parts of Judea.
Galatians 1:22 Bible Commentary

Quote:
It is not often that you get someone taking an oath and when yo do it is over something serious. Why would Paul be so inclined to explicitly outline his trips to Jeruslaem making numerical and other details. Sounds pretty trivial if there was no rumor or lie. In fact the trivialness of the issue is what you and Acts try to make it out to be - even to the point that you can omit it as if it is disgardable information. If it was that trivial why does Paul treat in such manner? One of Paul's points is that he did not need to go to Jerusalem to meet with those who seemed to be pillars. Yet Acts displays the fact that Paul tried to join them and was going in and out among them. This is 180 degrees from the tone in Galatians. Paul had no desire to be in and among them - he went there to confer with Peter regarding the gospel precisely because of the diffrent gospel mentioned in Gal.1:6. The link between verse 6 and 18 is clear - his gospel had nothing to do with Jerusalem (whether they had it right or not) - hence the trip. Although we see that they did have a works oriented gospel by compeling certain laws to be kept.



They have all tried to explain them. Certainly you have not reconciled anything by quoting them.



Paul leaves no room for another visit in Galatians -Hello! There is strict Chronology in Galatians as I have shown you before. Paul wrote in this way and was so adamant in his tone because of people like you and Barnes who just make crap up to solve problems. Paul went once after 3 years then a second time 14 years later - Geeezzz!



There are a number of views precisley because it does not jive. Not one of them works no matter how you organize all the trips that Acts says Paul made to Jerusalm with Galatians.



Never said it did it is once peice, of many, in the larger puzzle or one more nail in the coffin.



Strawman - see above.



I have read the theologians and commentators they fail to deal with all the problems and have shollow shortsighted or frankly just inventive solutions.
As for all the rest of this, there are no contradictions between Paul's account in Galatians 1 and 2 and Lukes account in Acts. They harmonize consistently. But you are a skeptic and will likely retain your bias and be unable to be objective. It is generally a waste of time trying to convince skeptics of their error.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is generally a waste of time trying to convince skeptics of their error.
Very true.


Peace,
brian
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Yes. So what are we arguing about then?
RESPONSE:

This thread is titled"Errors and Contradictions in Acts of the Apostles."


katiemygirl posted:

>>The Bible is inspired, God breathed. God doesn't contradict Himself, make mistakes or lie.<<

I am demonstrating using a number of examples from scripture that her's is an erroneous statement.

The Bible is simply the "Holy Book" of one of the world's major religions.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Very true.


Peace,
brian
RESPONSE:

Especially if one is arguing against overwhelming evidence!
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