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Old 04-13-2012, 12:09 PM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,565,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

This thread is titled"Errors and Contradictions in Acts of the Apostles."


katiemygirl posted:

>>The Bible is inspired, God breathed. God doesn't contradict Himself, make mistakes or lie.<<

I am demonstrating using a number of examples from scripture that her's is an erroneous statement.

The Bible is simply the "Holy Book" of one of the world's major religions.

Yes, but you keep arguing with me, and I have not claimed that the bible is inerrant.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:54 PM
 
37,596 posts, read 25,294,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This thread is simply proof that we humans are fallible . . . which is why the infallibility doctrine is so ludicrous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Just thought this was worth repeating.

Acknowledging that the authors of the bible were fallible human beings is NOT calling God fallible. When did Paul or any other biblical author become synonymous with God? And, too, why is it necessary to discard everything someone wrote simply because they were fallible human beings. With any other book we read, we feel free to agree with what rings true and dismiss what doesn't ... but with the bible it has to be all or nothing?
Thanks, Pleroo. It seems like such an obvious and reasonable idea . . . but the entrenched positions representing the dogma on BOTH sides of the God issue are simply not willing to acknowledge its soundness. As far as they are concerned God is either all or nothing . . . and always exercises complete control or none at all. We do not know nor can we guess what what God's attributes are or what He is inclined to do or not do, period. To try to specify what inspirations from God would be like and how they MUST manifest in this world we have Dominion over is just human arrogance and vanity. Those of us who know God exists and experience His presence should not try to specify any such thing. Skeptics have no business doing it, period.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,941,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Yes, but you keep arguing with me, and I have not claimed that the bible is inerrant.
RESPONSE:

THen evidently you are making other mistaking that I'm correcting!
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:14 PM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,565,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

THen evidently you are making other mistaking that I'm correcting!
Heh heh. But as shown by our last exchange, what you thought were my mistakes are not mistakes at all.

So, now that that's all cleared up...
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,941,523 times
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Originally Posted by Pleroo

>>Just thought this was worth repeating. >>

>>Acknowledging that the authors of the bible were fallible human beings is NOT calling God fallible. When did Paul or any other biblical author become synonymous with God? And, too, why is it necessary to discard everything someone wrote simply because they were fallible human beings. With any other book we read, we feel free to agree with what rings true and dismiss what doesn't ... but with the bible it has to be all or nothing? <<

RESPONSE:

Thank you for acknowledging that scripture is not inerrant.

>>why is it necessary to discard everything someone wrote simply because they were fallible human beings.<<

It's not necessary as long as one recognizes that what they wrote is not the infallible word of God, but merely a human creation.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-13-2012 at 02:16 PM.. Reason: duplicate
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,115,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Especially if one is arguing against overwhelming evidence!
VERY true!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
JGHORTON posted:

No. They went by the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible. Jesus failed to fulfill a number of messianic prophecies. Hence, the Jews (and many others) cannot accept him as the messiah. (However, the "misunderstanding" ploy is frequently used).
>>And what words are those .... There are over 300 specific messianic prophecies fulfilled by Christ (modern computers have calculated that the odds against any one person in history accurately fulfilling even 8 of these prophecies is about 10 to the 30th power. Further, Christ declared Himself to be the Messiah ... and scripture repeatedly confirms it. It also says that 'the eyes of the Jews were blinded to the truth.' <<

RESPONSE:

I've heard this assertion but never seen any evidence presented. Perhaps you can.

Are "prophecies" such as Matthew's "He shall be called a Nazorene" counted as a "fulfilled" prophecy??

The trouble with that one is that there is no such prophecy in the Old Testament, nor even any mention of Nazareth itself.

And, of course, it's easy to write prophecies after the event has occurred.

So now you only have to claim 299 prophecies were fulfilled.
2nd RESPONSE:

Matt 27 9-10 "Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah, ‘And they tookthe thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one on whom a price had been set on whom some of the people of Israel had set a price, and they gavethem for the potter’s field, as the Lord commanded me.’ "

There is no such prophecy in Jeremiah.

So now you only have to claim 298 prophecies were fulfilled.

(Actually, I don,t think that any propheciy claimed by Matthew was fulfilled). Do you have one you want to claim was?
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:55 PM
 
5,508 posts, read 4,411,048 times
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Speaking of Prophecy:

It is interesting that the one of the supossed greatest prophecies, Dan.9:24-27, was never once used by any New Testament writer to establish the coming of Christ. Yet, all these obscure and vague OT verses are used to give proof to Christ.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,941,523 times
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JGHORTON posted:

>>And what words are those .... There are over 300 specific messianic prophecies fulfilled by Christ (modern computers have calculated that the odds against any one person in history accurately fulfilling even 8 of these prophecies is about 10 to the 30th power. Further, Christ declared Himself to be the Messiah ... and scripture repeatedly confirms it. It also says that 'the eyes of the Jews were blinded to the truth.' <<

3rd RESPONSE:

Matt 2:16 When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men,* he was infuriated, and he sent and killed all the children in and around Bethlehem who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had learned from the wise men.* 17Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah:
18 ‘A voice was heard in Ramah,
wailing and loud lamentation,
Rachel weeping for her children;
she refused to be consoled, because they are no more.’

However, Jeremiah 31:15 has Rachael weeping for the Jews carried off in Babylonian captivity, not the Slaughter of the Holy Innocents by King Herod.

It has nothing to do with a future messiah. Just Matthew using his imagination. (Or inerrant inspiration)?

(You may have noticed that this prophecy doesn't appear in Luke. The reason is that Luke has Jesus born during the 6 AD census of Judea and Herod had been dead for ten years).

So now you can reduce your number of claimed "fulfilled" prophecies to 297.

Should I continue, or have I sufficiently made the point?

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-13-2012 at 09:17 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:37 AM
 
697 posts, read 880,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Jesus said if you reject His word, you reject Him and His Father. So yes, you spoke correctly when you said those who say God's word has errors are enemies of Jesus.

Scripture is God's word. You putting it down and demeaning it constantly will never change the truths contained within the Bible.
Jesus said if you reject ME!

John 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

You think that because I acknowledge that there are, in fact, errors and contradictions in the Bible, and because I espouse that the Bible is written by human beings inspired by God, that I reject Jesus? That I am an enemy of Jesus? How very wrong you are.

You think I demean and "put down" the Bible? I do not glorify it as a deity. I put it in its place because it is NOT God. Only God is infallible. Some hold the Bible up as if it were God himself or on par with God or as if it were worthy of worship itself. It is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Anyone who puts this much time into looking for contradictions in any book must feel threatened, be very insecure and in desperate need for others to validate what he says.

There can be only one goal and purpose for this kind of thread and that is to destroy what little bit of faith some unsuspecting reader may have, someone who is vulnerable and teetering on the edge. It is not uplifting to anyone. It accomplishes nothing but destruction. Like I said, Satan is loving it!

Katie
Actually Katie, my reasons for arguing against Biblical inerrancy and infallibility are the same as yours for defending it. I believe that the Bible can be an enormous obstacle for the very people you are worried about - someone who is vulnerable and teetering on the edge. If a reader applies any of their God-given critical thinking or intellect to the Bible, they will have to confront inaccuracies and contradictions galore. Forced to choose, all or nothing, then there is nothing. Once you know something, you can't unknow it, can you?

But, they don't have to make that choice. One can apply critical thinking skills to the Bible, tease out the very contradictions discussed in this thread, identify historical inaccuracies and factual errors, and still have faith in Jesus! It is NOT all or nothing. There is no need for insecurity, no need to be threatened, no need for validation by others.

You may use the Bible itself to show that is infallible. I will use it to show that itself encourages application of critical thinking skills:

Proverbs 14:15 A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to his steps.

Proverbs 19:2 It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way.
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