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Old 04-14-2012, 06:05 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
Jesus said if you reject ME!

John 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

You think that because I acknowledge that there are, in fact, errors and contradictions in the Bible, and because I espouse that the Bible is written by human beings inspired by God, that I reject Jesus? That I am an enemy of Jesus? How very wrong you are.

You think I demean and "put down" the Bible? I do not glorify it as a deity. I put it in its place because it is NOT God. Only God is infallible. Some hold the Bible up as if it were God himself or on par with God or as if it were worthy of worship itself. It is not.



Actually Katie, my reasons for arguing against Biblical inerrancy and infallibility are the same as yours for defending it. I believe that the Bible can be an enormous obstacle for the very people you are worried about - someone who is vulnerable and teetering on the edge. If a reader applies any of their God-given critical thinking or intellect to the Bible, they will have to confront inaccuracies and contradictions galore. Forced to choose, all or nothing, then there is nothing. Once you know something, you can't unknow it, can you?

But, they don't have to make that choice. One can apply critical thinking skills to the Bible, tease out the very contradictions discussed in this thread, identify historical inaccuracies and factual errors, and still have faith in Jesus! It is NOT all or nothing. There is no need for insecurity, no need to be threatened, no need for validation by others.

You may use the Bible itself to show that is infallible. I will use it to show that itself encourages application of critical thinking skills:

Proverbs 14:15 A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to his steps.

Proverbs 19:2 It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way.
Your post boils down to one thing. You reject the word of God in favor of your own religion, one where you can make the rules.

You may know the Scriptures, but you reject what God says. People who reject God’s word will be rejected by God. Like it or not, you will be judged by the Bible, not by your own ideas.

Jesus said: “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him --- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).

You cannot separate Jesus from His word. It is His words that will judge you. Every word written in the Bible are the words of Jesus. The Bible is God breathed, and Jesus is God!

[/quote] YOU SAID: If a reader applies any of their God-given critical thinking or intellect to the Bible, they will have to confront inaccuracies and contradictions galore.

You may use the Bible itself to show that is infallible. I will use it to show that itself encourages application of critical thinking skills:

[/quote]

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

We are not saved by knowledge and critical thinking. We are saved by grace through FAITH. Your faith seems to be in your own wisdom.

Katie
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:33 PM
 
37,494 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Your post boils down to one thing. You reject the word of God in favor of your own religion, one where you can make the rules.
Nonsense. Christ is the only religion we need and following His commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't is all that need concern us.
Quote:
You may know the Scriptures, but you reject what God says. People who reject God’s word will be rejected by God. Like it or not, you will be judged by the Bible, not by your own ideas.
We willl NOT be judged by the Bible, katie . . . we will be judged by God. See . . . this is where you equate the Bible to God and tread on very dangerous idolatrous ground!!!
Quote:
Jesus said: “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him --- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).
You cannot separate Jesus from His word. It is His words that will judge you. Every word written in the Bible are the words of Jesus. The Bible is God breathed, and Jesus is God!
The "precepts and doctrines of men" have convinced you that Jesus wrote the Bible . . . but He wrote NOTHING. God the Father inspired the ancients . . . but they were not infallible and their ignorance and superstition corrupts the inspirations they received. At least they got the prophesies about Christ correct.
Quote:

Quote:
YOU SAID: If a reader applies any of their God-given critical thinking or intellect to the Bible, they will have to confront inaccuracies and contradictions galore.

You may use the Bible itself to show that is infallible. I will use it to show that itself encourages application of critical thinking skills:
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

We are not saved by knowledge and critical thinking. We are saved by grace through FAITH. Your faith seems to be in your own wisdom.

Katie
This has been Satan's greatest triumph . . . convincing believers that they must remain ignorant and accept absurdities to show their faith in God and be saved!!!! What a tragedy and a travesty!!! The religious leaders carry a heavy burden. Knowledge and critical thinking are not separate from Faith . . . they reinforce it.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Nonsense. Christ is the only religion we need and following His commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't is all that need concern us. We willl NOT be judged by the Bible, katie . . . we will be judged by God. See . . . this is where you equate the Bible to God and tread on very dangerous idolatrous ground!!! The "precepts and doctrines of men" have convinced you that Jesus wrote the Bible . . . but He wrote NOTHING. God the Father inspired the ancients . . . but they were not infallible and their ignorance and superstition corrupts the inspirations they received. At least they got the prophesies about Christ correct.
This has been Satan's greatest triumph . . . convincing believers that they must remain ignorant and accept absurdities to show their faith in God and be saved!!!! What a tragedy and a travesty!!! The religious leaders carry a heavy burden. Knowledge and critical thinking are not separate from Faith . . . they reinforce it.
RESPONSE:

Amen!

>>At least they got the prophesies about Christ correct.<<

Not always.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-14-2012 at 09:43 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:38 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Amen!

>>At least they got the prophesies about Christ correct.<<

Not always.
I'm curious AW. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he died on the cross, was buried and rose from the dead?

Katie
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:40 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Speaking of Prophecy:

It is interesting that the one of the supossed greatest prophecies, Dan.9:24-27, was never once used by any New Testament writer to establish the coming of Christ. Yet, all these obscure and vague OT verses are used to give proof to Christ.
Shiloh,

I asked AW this same question. Would you mind sharing whether you believe Jesus is the Son of God and he died, was buried and ressurected from the dead? Thanks.

Katie
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:15 PM
 
37,494 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
I'm curious AW. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he died on the cross, was buried and rose from the dead?
Katie
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Shiloh,
I asked AW this same question. Would you mind sharing whether you believe Jesus is the Son of God and he died, was buried and ressurected from the dead? Thanks.
Katie
This is the "magic" question that is supposed to reveal Satan's children and children of demons. Thank God I believe it . . . but I am still ignored because I know the Bible is fallible and apparently that is also a sign of evil. Sad . . . very sad.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
I'm curious AW. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he died on the cross, was buried and rose from the dead?

Katie
RESPONSE:

(1) Many of us are "sons of God." Read the use of this term throughout the OldTestament.

(2) I believe there is enough historical evidence to conclude that Jesus was crucified as an insurectionist.

(3) It is reasonable to believe that Jesus was buried somewhere. This was ordinarily done for those crucified by the Romans using a common grave.

(4) The evidence that Jesus rose from the dead in contradictory and insufficient. Therefore I don't believe it.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:16 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

(1) Many of us are "sons of God." Read the use of this term throughout the OldTestament.

(2) I believe there is enough historical evidence to conclude that Jesus was crucified as an insurectionist.

(3) It is reasonable to believe that Jesus was buried somewhere. This was ordinarily done for those crucified by the Romans using a common grave.

(4) The evidence that Jesus rose from the dead in contradictory and insufficient. Therefore I don't believe it.
Thank you for your honesty Ancient Warrior.

I guess that means you don't believe there is any hope of life eternal. IOW, you believe when you die, you're dead all over like Rover. There is nothing beyond the grave.

With that, I guess I can only echo what the apostle Paul said.

19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. (1 Corinthians 15:9)

Katie
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:08 PM
 
17,691 posts, read 8,866,529 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. (1 Corinthians 15:9)
"There is life beyond the grave, yet most cannot see it."
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:28 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
"There is life beyond the grave, yet most cannot see it."
Amen Jerwade! On this we can agree. How sad our sojourn through this world if we didn't have eternal life to look forward to at the end.

Katie
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