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Old 04-16-2012, 01:38 PM
 
2,637 posts, read 927,768 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
I think this has been answered earlier in this thread - The truth matters and error has consequences.
I must have missed it.

I know I have a reason for being on the christianity forum. It's because I am a christian, and I have a motive. Christians are told to spread the gospel, to contend for the faith. You may not agree with my beliefs, but those are my reasons for being here.

So what are your reasons? I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why an atheist is on a christianity forum. What do you hope to accomplish here? I mean, what do you have in common with christians? I know if I wasn't a christian, I wouldn't want to be hangin out with them talking about religion. I'd rather be talking with other atheists. Maybe that's just the way I think.

Kate
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:45 PM
 
2,637 posts, read 927,768 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Dear "Just Wondering,"

You are continuing to exhibit a recurring problem in reasoning. Those who are not Christians are not automatically atheists. For example, Jews and Muslims are theists. Deists are also theists but do not believe that God made a revealation.
Do I detect a bit of sarcasm here? My question to Shiloh wasn't mean to be insulting, and notice, she didn't give me a sarcastic answer. So why did you feel the need to? Hey I'm just trying to figure out where everyone is coming from on this thread.

I could have sworn I'd read quite a few of your posts on the atheism thread, and that you are an atheist. You could have fooled me from the posts you've written.

Ok so you say you're not an atheist. What are you then? You've already pretty much said you aren't a christian. I mean, you did say you don't believe Jesus arose from the dead. I guess that leaves christian out of the picture.

It would make things much easier for everyone all the way around if we all knew where others are coming from.

You already know that I'm a christian, one who believes the Bible is inspired and inerrant. It doesn't matter whether you agree with me or not, but it would be nice to know what you are and where you stand.

Kate
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:50 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 1,781,432 times
Reputation: 1491
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
I must have missed it.

I know I have a reason for being on the christianity forum. It's because I am a christian, and I have a motive. Christians are told to spread the gospel, to contend for the faith.
Why are you spreading the gospel and contending for the faith on the Christianity sub-forum?

Quote:
So what are your reasons? I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why an atheist is on a christianity forum. What do you hope to accomplish here?
Clarity - the facts.

Quote:
I mean, what do you have in common with christians? I know if I wasn't a christian, I wouldn't want to be hangin out with them talking about religion. I'd rather be talking with other atheists. Maybe that's just the way I think.

Kate
First, I did not come into this thread to hang out with christians - I came here to offer my opinion on the subject at hand - errors and contradictions in Acts. Second, I was a Christian so I have a lot in common with them - maybe even more so because unlike most who just parrot their pastor's views or read books supporting their views - I actually studied the bible during my whole christian experience - and it was this journey that lead to my rejecting it.

Last edited by Shiloh1; 04-16-2012 at 02:05 PM..
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:03 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 1,781,432 times
Reputation: 1491
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
That's funny. I don't even go looking for problems with the bible.
That's funny neither did nor do I - they just became apparent.

Quote:
I don't have to. others do it for me. I hear the problems and i'm left with the question:

What's the problem?
Sounds like you got a case of Cognitive Bias - faith does that to you.

Quote:
The Qu'ran? yeah... abraham told to sacrifice Ishmael and not Isaac at mecca instead of Mt. Moriah? right....

The book of Mormon? What's in there that I need that i can't find in the bible?
The same could be said about the Bible - everyone has faith that their revelation is the true one. You should just believe theirs as well.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:05 PM
 
531 posts, read 184,876 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
That's funny neither did nor do I - they just became apparent.



Sounds like you got a case of Cognitive Bias - faith does that to you.



The same could be said about the Bible - everyone has faith that their revelation is the true one. You should just believe theirs as well.
Go point out problems with the Qu'ran. then come back and tell my how it went.

Sounds like you have a problem with my faith - not having any does that to some...
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
13,631 posts, read 8,789,384 times
Reputation: 4419
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
The book of Mormon? What's in there that I need that i can't find in the bible?
Probably nothing that would matter to you, but to me, that's like asking, "What's in Mark's gospel that I can't find in Luke? Why should I bother reading John; I've already read Matthew."
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:00 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 813,200 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
JGHORTON posted:

No. They went by the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible. Jesus failed to fulfill a number of messianic prophecies. Hence, the Jews (and many others) cannot accept him as the messiah. (However, the "misunderstanding" ploy is frequently used).
>>And what words are those .... There are over 300 specific messianic prophecies fulfilled by Christ (modern computers have calculated that the odds against any one person in history accurately fulfilling even 8 of these prophecies is about 10 to the 30th power. Further, Christ declared Himself to be the Messiah ... and scripture repeatedly confirms it. It also says that 'the eyes of the Jews were blinded to the truth.' <<

RESPONSE:

I've heard this assertion but never seen any evidence presented. Perhaps you can.

Are "prophecies" such as Matthew's "He shall be called a Nazorene" counted as a "fulfilled" prophecy??

The trouble with that one is that there is no such prophecy in the Old Testament, nor even any mention of Nazareth itself.

And, of course, it's easy to write prophecies after the event has occurred.

So now you only have to claim 299 prophecies were fulfilled.
Quote:
Are "prophecies" such as Matthew's "He shall be called a Nazorene" counted as a "fulfilled" prophecy??

The trouble with that one is that there is no such prophecy in the Old Testament, nor even any mention of Nazareth itself.
Mt 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

The problem is you try to 'pick apart' the Scriptures and yet you don't even understand when a 'word play' is being used.

The translators chose to translate propheton [προφητῶν] as prophets when in fact only one prophet Isaiah spoke of Messiah as netzer; 'young shoot' or "sprout." Netzer is the basis for the name Nazareth.

Now other prophets reveal Messiah as the Branch, but use the word tzemach, thus eliminating the word play by Matthew.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:26 PM
 
531 posts, read 184,876 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Probably nothing that would matter to you, but to me, that's like asking, "What's in Mark's gospel that I can't find in Luke? Why should I bother reading John; I've already read Matthew."
Probably need to start a new thread for this...
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,064 posts, read 1,324,961 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Do I detect a bit of sarcasm here? My question to Shiloh wasn't mean to be insulting, and notice, she didn't give me a sarcastic answer. So why did you feel the need to? Hey I'm just trying to figure out where everyone is coming from on this thread.

I could have sworn I'd read quite a few of your posts on the atheism thread, and that you are an atheist. You could have fooled me from the posts you've written.

Ok so you say you're not an atheist. What are you then? You've already pretty much said you aren't a christian. I mean, you did say you don't believe Jesus arose from the dead. I guess that leaves christian out of the picture.

It would make things much easier for everyone all the way around if we all knew where others are coming from.

You already know that I'm a christian, one who believes the Bible is inspired and inerrant. It doesn't matter whether you agree with me or not, but it would be nice to know what you are and where you stand.

Kate
RESPONSE:

>>I detect a bit of sarcasm here?<<

No sarcasm. Just proving your error in reasoning.

>>I could have sworn I'd read quite a few of your posts on the atheism thread, and that you are an atheist<<

RESPONSE:

I've never posted on the atheism thread as best I can recall.
>>You've already pretty much said you aren't a christian. I mean, you did say you don't believe Jesus arose from the dead. I guess that leaves christian out of the picture.<<

RESPONSE:

Do all Christians believe Jesus literally rose from the dead?
Anyway, I'm a deist.

>>You already know that I'm a christian, one who believes the Bible is inspired and inerrant.<<

RESPONSE:

Matt 2:1 "In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea," Note: King Herod died in 4 BC.

and

Luke 2: 1-6 "This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3All went to their own towns to be registered. 4Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. 5He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child. 6While they were there, the time came for her to deliver her child. "

Note: Quirinus' census of Judea took place when Judea first came under the control of the Roman governor of Syria. This was in 6 AD ten years after the death of Herod while his son Archelaus was ruler of Judea.

Are you saying that both passages are inspired and inerrant?

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-16-2012 at 08:54 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,064 posts, read 1,324,961 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Mt 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

The problem is you try to 'pick apart' the Scriptures and yet you don't even understand when a 'word play' is being used.

The translators chose to translate propheton [προφητῶν] as prophets when in fact only one prophet Isaiah spoke of Messiah as netzer; 'young shoot' or "sprout." Netzer is the basis for the name Nazareth.

Now other prophets reveal Messiah as the Branch, but use the word tzemach, thus eliminating the word play by Matthew.
RESPONSE:

It's not "word play." It's a falsified prophecy. Lets not try to change the plain meaning of words that are written:

".... dwelt in a city called Nazareth:"
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