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Old 04-11-2012, 12:49 PM
 
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One major contradiction is between Acts 9:26-30 and Galatians 1:18-24.

Since his conversion, according to Galatians, Paul was at Jerusalem two times in a 14-17 year period. But Acts has him going there three times and one of the accounts (the above) does not match the other.

Galatians highlights the spat between Antioch and Jerusalem and specifically Paul and Jerusalem. Acts downplays this and tries to 'edit' the facts in order to highlight the unity and spread of the church. The clues, other than this error, are obvious that the writer does this.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:01 PM
 
531 posts, read 387,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
A poster claimed regarding Chapter 5 of Acts of the Apostles:

>>5:1 As we were told in the previous chapter, all the other 120 that were present in the upper room besides the apostles themselves, were the disciples/associates of the apostles.<<

Is it credible that a total of 131 people occupied this room while awaiting Pentecost?


Israel - Upper Room - YouTube
well, i remember in boot camp they shoved 40 of us in room not NEARLY that big. fun... if in fact that is the room... i don't have a problem believing it.

They probably weren't doing P90X in there or anything...
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:19 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,044,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
The story of Paulís conversion on the road to Damascus found in Acts of the Apostles doesn't appear anywhere in Paulís own writings

In fact, what happened after Paulís visit to Damascus, is contradicted by Paulís letters.

According to Acts 9, following Paul's conversion he spent a little time in Damascus and then traveled to Jereusalem where he met the apostles

Acts 9:23-26 "23 After some time had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night so that they might kill him; 25but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall,* lowering him in a basket.26 When he had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples; and they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple. (NRSV

But Paul's own epistle to the Galations tells us:

Galatians 1: 15 -18 "But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son to me,* so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus. Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and stayed with him for fifteen (NRSV

So did Paul get lowered over the wall and escape Damascus and travel to Jerusalem, or did he go to Arabia and spend three years there

Here we have a contradiction in two writings both of which are supposed to be inspired and thus inerrant.

What is the purpose of your thread? Are you seeking solutions to your supposed contradictions, or are you simply trying to discredit God's Word?
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:48 PM
 
5,495 posts, read 4,402,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
What is the purpose of your thread? Are you seeking solutions to your supposed contradictions, or are you simply trying to discredit God's Word?
Well I can answer that for myself - I have sought solutions to this problem and have read all the theories of 'rconciliation' and none work. So, the latter would be the case - that is - it is not inspired.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
You are certainly 'bolder' than I. When I run into things in scripture that I do not understand, particularly things like you mentioned, I generally conclude that the problem is with my own understanding of what was being said. Of course, I've only been a Bible teacher for 35-years.

But, you feel qualified to immediately declare these things to be "errors and contradictions."

1). Are you certain that the particular room in your video clip is the one referenced in the Bible?

2). Many concluded that the Messiah would reign on an earthly throne and cast-out the earthly enemies of Israel, but, they were mistaken in their understanding. Incorrect expectations are why many miss the things of God, and also why the Jews missed Jesus Christ, the Messiah, whom they had been seeking for over 700 years.<<



The problem with declaring that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions ... in some areas, --- is that it eliminates any credible basis for declaring ANY of it true. And, that being the case, what possible difference do perceived contradictions or errors make?
RESPONSE:

>>(1). Are you certain that the particular room in your video clip is the one referenced in the Bible?<<

No. But that's what the churches teach.

>>(2). Many concluded that the Messiah would reign on an earthly throne and cast-out the earthly enemies of Israel, but, they were mistaken in their understanding. Incorrect expectations are why many miss the things of God, and also why the Jews missed Jesus Christ, the Messiah, whom they had been seeking for over 700 years.<<

No. They went by the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible. Jesus failed to fulfill a number of messianic prophecies. Hence, the Jews (and many others) cannot accept him as the messiah. (However, the "misunderstanding" ploy is frequently used).

>>The problem with declaring that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions ... in some areas, --- is that it eliminates any credible basis for declaring ANY of it true. And, that being the case, what possible difference do perceived contradictions or errors make?<<

Your logical error is called the "either-or" ploy. You only can think in terms of two possibilities. How about considering if some of the bible is historically accurate, and some is not.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-11-2012 at 02:13 PM.. Reason: computer error
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
A couple of points here:

First you are confusing Acts chap. 1, where they were gathered to vote a replacement for Judas, with the gathering of disciples on the day of Pentecost.

What's my point? Why were there 120 disciples to elect Matthias?. (Acts 1:15-26) The number required to assemble a Jewish council is 120.

Now when Peter and the other followers were gathered together on the day of Pentecost; first it doesn't say there were 120 of them. And second it doesn't say they were in the upper room.

Third, they were in the temple; not a house. How do we know this? The same Greek word "oikos" translated "house" in (Acts 2:2), was actually translated "Temple" in (Luke 11:51).

And there were devout Jews from every Nation in Jerusalem that day. Would they have gone to a house or would they have gathered in the Jewish Temple? Obviously, as was their custom, they would have gone to the Temple.
RESPONSE:

Actually, I got the 120 figure from another thread discussing acts. It was the supposed number of "believers." It's in Acts chapter 1

But Act 2 clearly states 1. "When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting."

The work is ""oikou" (Strongs 3624)):--home, house(-hold), temple

Devout Jews were not necessarily followers of Jesus you may have noticed. In fact, they had called for his crucifixion if you recall.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
What is the purpose of your thread? Are you seeking solutions to your supposed contradictions, or are you simply trying to discredit God's Word?
RESPONSE:

I'm trying to separate fact from fiction, what actually happened as opposed to what is only a legend. Identifying contradictions is useful in that only one version of the story (at the most) can be true.

God didn't write the Bible, men did.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:49 PM
 
15,013 posts, read 7,537,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Well I can answer that for myself - I have sought solutions to this problem and have read all the theories of 'rconciliation' and none work. So, the latter would be the case - that is - it is not inspired.

As ancient points out, it does not have to be either/or. Something can be inspired without being inerrant.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,239 posts, read 10,002,985 times
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Originally Posted by jghorton

The problem with declaring that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions ... in some areas, --- is that it eliminates any credible basis for declaring ANY of it true. And, that being the case, what possible difference do perceived contradictions or errors make?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
Don't be silly. Of course we have discernment for what is true. You have so little confidence in the Holy Spirit?


The Holy Spirit enables us to "rightly divide ('correctly understand and apply') the Word of Truth". The indwelling Holy Spirit is also the 'mind of Christ who to enables us to understand the things of the Spirit. However, God is not the author of confusion. Nowhere in scripture does it even remotely suggest that the Holy Spirit is at odds with God's Word ... or enables us to determine which parts of God's written Word to accept as true and which to reject as false.

I have absolute confidence in God's Word and the Holy Spirit; and rely on God's power to keep both inspired and in one accord! I stand by my original contention that 'declaring the Bible full or errors and contradictions' is a very slippery slope ... which undermines one's credible basis for declaring ANY of it true.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:26 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
The story of Paulís conversion on the road to Damascus found in Acts of the Apostles doesn't appear anywhere in Paulís own writings

In fact, what happened after Paulís visit to Damascus, is contradicted by Paulís letters.

According to Acts 9, following Paul's conversion he spent a little time in Damascus and then traveled to Jereusalem where he met the apostles

Acts 9:23-26 "23 After some time had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night so that they might kill him; 25but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall,* lowering him in a basket.26 When he had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples; and they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple. (NRSV

But Paul's own epistle to the Galations tells us:

Galatians 1: 15 -18 "But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son to me,* so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus. Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and stayed with him for fifteen (NRSV

So did Paul get lowered over the wall and escape Damascus and travel to Jerusalem, or did he go to Arabia and spend three years there

Here we have a contradiction in two writings both of which are supposed to be inspired and thus inerrant.
There is no contradiction.

Acts 9:23 When many (hikanai) days had elapsed, the Jews plotted together to do away with him,

hikanos;

Strong's Concordance
Definition: (a) considerable, sufficient, of number, quantity, time, (b) of persons: sufficiently strong (good, etc.), worthy, suitable, with various constructions, (c) many, much.
Strong's Greek: 2425. ?????? (hikanos) -- sufficient, fit

The so-called contradiction is answered in the following two links.

Acts 9:23 Bible Commentary

Galatians 1:17 Bible Commentary

And C. I. Scofield writes...

3(9:22) It seems probable that vv.22-25 refer to Paul's labors in Damascus after his return from Arabia (Gal. 1:17). The ''many days'' (v.23) may represent the ''three years'' of Gal.1:18, which intervened between Paul's return to Damascus and his visit to Peter.
New Scofield Reference Edition, 1967 edition, p. 1176
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