U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-11-2012, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,248 posts, read 10,006,995 times
Reputation: 15115

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

>>(1). Are you certain that the particular room in your video clip is the one referenced in the Bible?<<

No. But that's what the churches teach.
---- I don't know whether that is true or not, but, was taking exception to your claim that this video clip somehow 'proved' a Bible contradiction in Acts 5 (?)

>>(2). Many concluded that the Messiah would reign on an earthly throne and cast-out the earthly enemies of Israel, but, they were mistaken in their understanding. Incorrect expectations are why many miss the things of God, and also why the Jews missed Jesus Christ, the Messiah, whom they had been seeking for over 700 years.<<

No. They went by the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible. Jesus failed to fulfill a number of messianic prophecies. Hence, the Jews (and many others) cannot accept him as the messiah. (However, the "misunderstanding" ploy is frequently used).
And what words are those .... There are over 300 specific messianic prophecies fulfilled by Christ (modern computers have calculated that the odds against any one person in history accurately fulfilling even 8 of these prophecies is about 10 to the 30th power. Further, Christ declared Himself to be the Messiah ... and scripture repeatedly confirms it. It also says that 'the eyes of the Jews were blinded to the truth.'

>>The problem with declaring that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions ... in some areas, --- is that it eliminates any credible basis for declaring ANY of it true. And, that being the case, what possible difference do perceived contradictions or errors make?<<

Your logical error is called the "either-or" ploy. You only can think in terms of two possibilities. How about considering if some of the bible is historically accurate, and some is not.
But, isn't that the very problem with your argument? You choose to believe 'some things' in the Bible are true and others untrue ... based on 'historical records' (which are those? ... Josephus or ?). So, in a very real sense, 'man's historical records,' have become your 'Bible' or source of truth! (But, how do you determine whether the Bible or the historical record is true or accurate?).

Your logical error is called "Syncretism" ... "picking and choosing whatever you want to believe ---from an unlimited (and 'unbound') range of human sources...of which you consider the Bible to only be 'one of many.' This leaves you with no solid foundation for declaring anything 'true' ... and thus, precludes "knowing the truth and being free indeed"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-11-2012, 03:35 PM
 
5,496 posts, read 4,403,478 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
As ancient points out, it does not have to be either/or. Something can be inspired without being inerrant.
And what does that say about the quality of that inspiration particularly in light of Christian Theology and Bibliology?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 03:56 PM
 
5,496 posts, read 4,403,478 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no contradiction.

Acts 9:23 When many (hikanai) days had elapsed, the Jews plotted together to do away with him,

hikanos;

Strong's Concordance
Definition: (a) considerable, sufficient, of number, quantity, time, (b) of persons: sufficiently strong (good, etc.), worthy, suitable, with various constructions, (c) many, much.
Strong's Greek: 2425. ?????? (hikanos) -- sufficient, fit

The so-called contradiction is answered in the following two links.

Acts 9:23 Bible Commentary

Galatians 1:17 Bible Commentary

And C. I. Scofield writes...

3(9:22) It seems probable that vv.22-25 refer to Paul's labors in Damascus after his return from Arabia (Gal. 1:17). The ''many days'' (v.23) may represent the ''three years'' of Gal.1:18, which intervened between Paul's return to Damascus and his visit to Peter.
New Scofield Reference Edition, 1967 edition, p. 1176
Very good, now if that is the case then Acts 9:26-30 and Galatians 1:18-24 are in contradiction and furthermore the number of times within the 14-17 years of Paul's TWO visits in Galatians is recorded in Acts as being THREE.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 04:28 PM
 
15,026 posts, read 7,540,967 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
And what does that say about the quality of that inspiration particularly in light of Christian Theology and Bibliology?
Not sure what you mean exactly. In your mind, does something have to be historically accurate or even historically true in order to be inspired or to inspire and convey spiritual truths?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,937,870 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
As ancient points out, it does not have to be either/or. Something can be inspired without being inerrant.
RESPONSE:

That creates a bit of a problem. If one is referring to divine inspiration and admits an inspired writing contains errors, then God made those errors.

A pivotal Catholic teaching on is point found in the encyclical Providentissimus deus,20. It makes this point:

"For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true.

"This is the ancient and unchanging faith of the Church, solemnly defined in the Councils of Florence and of Trent, and finally confirmed and more expressly formulated by the Council of the Vatican."

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-11-2012 at 05:23 PM.. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,937,870 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no contradiction.

And C. I. Scofield writes...

3(9:22) It seems probable that vv.22-25 refer to Paul's labors in Damascus after his return from Arabia (Gal. 1:17). The ''many days'' (v.23) may represent the ''three years'' of Gal.1:18, which intervened between Paul's return to Damascus and his visit to Peter.
New Scofield Reference Edition, 1967 edition, p. 1176
RESPONSE:

>> The ''many days'' (v.23) may represent the ''three years'' of Gal.1:18<<

That's pretty far-fetched. And where in Acts does it say that Paul went to Arabia for three years (or "many days").
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 05:38 PM
 
15,026 posts, read 7,540,967 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

That creates a bit of a problem. If one is referring to divine inspiration and admits an inspired writing contains errors, then God made those errors.

A pivotal Catholic teaching on is point found in the encyclical Providentissimus deus,20. It makes this point:

"For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; <snip>
Inspiration and dictation are not the same thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,937,870 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
But, isn't that the very problem with your argument? You choose to believe 'some things' in the Bible are true and others untrue ... based on 'historical records' (which are those? ... Josephus or ?). So, in a very real sense, 'man's historical records,' have become your 'Bible' or source of truth! (But, how do you determine whether the Bible or the historical record is true or accurate?).

Your logical error is called "Syncretism" ... "picking and choosing whatever you want to believe ---from an unlimited (and 'unbound') range of human sources...of which you consider the Bible to only be 'one of many.' This leaves you with no solid foundation for declaring anything 'true' ... and thus, precludes "knowing the truth and being free indeed"
RESPONSE:

>>to believe 'some things' in the Bible are true and others untrue ... based on 'historical records' (which are those? ... )<<

There are many historical records including Josephus that can be compared to the bible's account.

>>(But, how do you determine whether the Bible or the historical record is true or accurate?). <<

In some case the passages themselves show contradictions. (In a contradiction, at least one version is in error). For example, Matthew's nativity account has the Holy Family fleeing to Egypt to avoid Herod's slaughter of the innocents.

But Luke has the Holy Family returning to Nazareth once the required rites were completed. Those would be the circumcision of the male child (day eight) and the purification of the mother (day 50).

Luke 2:39 "When they had finished everything required by the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth."

Obviously, and without consulting any outside work, one can recognize a contradiction here.

I generally "pick and choose" what I know to be true from reliable historical sources or by examining contradictions. A belief system doesn't dictate my conclusions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,937,870 times
Reputation: 255
Acts 1:17-18 "for he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.’ 18(Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong,* he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out."(NRSV)

Matt 27:5-7 "Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. 6But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, ‘It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since they are blood money.’ 7After conferring together, they used them to buy the potter’s field as a place to bury foreigners."(NRSV)

Questions:
1. Do these accounts agree on who bought the Potter's field?
2. Do these accounts agree on how Judas died?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2012, 07:25 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,654,940 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

>> The ''many days'' (v.23) may represent the ''three years'' of Gal.1:18<<

That's pretty far-fetched. And where in Acts does it say that Paul went to Arabia for three years (or "many days").
Not at all. In 1 Kings 18:1 the phrase 'many days' is used for the largest part of the three and a half year drought in the land of Samaria, in which Elijah spent probably about three years with the widow. 'Now it happened after many days (rab-bim yā·mîm) that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, "Go, show yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the face of the earth."

If you had gone into the other commentaries that I provided in post #20 you would have seen the reference to 1 Kings.

And why do you ask 'where in Acts does it say that Paul went to Arabia for three years (or ''many days'')' when you know full well that a comparison is being done between Acts 9:23 and Gal 1:18? The many days are mentioned in Acts 9:23 as I have already shown. The fact that the many days refer to three years is confirmed in Gal 1:18.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top