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Old 04-10-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,882,193 times
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A poster claimed regarding Chapter 5 of Acts of the Apostles:

>>5:1 As we were told in the previous chapter, all the other 120 that were present in the upper room besides the apostles themselves, were the disciples/associates of the apostles.<<

Is it credible that a total of 131 people occupied this room while awaiting Pentecost?


Israel - Upper Room - YouTube
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Oregon
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In Acts of the Apostles 1:6-7 it is written:


"So when they had come together, they asked him, ‘Lord, is this the time when you will restore the kingdom to Israel?’ 7He replied, ‘It is not for you to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority."

Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


The messiah was supposed to sit on the throne of Israel and drive out the occupying power. But Jesus left without doing so.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-10-2012 at 05:56 PM.. Reason: addition
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:59 PM
 
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Thank you for finally starting another thread where debates like this can take place without hindering the other thread, where we respect each others views even though we may not agree with them.

I agree. That number in that room seems pretty hard to believe.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Florida -
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You are certainly 'bolder' than I. When I run into things in scripture that I do not understand, particularly things like you mentioned, I generally conclude that the problem is with my own understanding of what was being said. Of course, I've only been a Bible teacher for 35-years.

But, you feel qualified to immediately declare these things to be "errors and contradictions."

1). Are you certain that the particular room in your video clip is the one referenced in the Bible?

2). Many concluded that the Messiah would reign on an earthly throne and cast-out the earthly enemies of Israel, but, they were mistaken in their understanding. Incorrect expectations are why many miss the things of God, and also why the Jews missed Jesus Christ, the Messiah, whom they had been seeking for over 700 years.

The problem with declaring that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions ... in some areas, --- is that it eliminates any credible basis for declaring ANY of it true. And, that being the case, what possible difference do perceived contradictions or errors make?
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:08 PM
 
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- What's wrong with the upper room?



- God tore The Kingdom (10 tribes)
out of the hands of King Solomon and his son.
1 Kings 11:11,31,35



- They did not know the Time of their Visitation. - Luke 19:44
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:35 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,565,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
A poster claimed regarding Chapter 5 of Acts of the Apostles:

>>5:1 As we were told in the previous chapter, all the other 120 that were present in the upper room besides the apostles themselves, were the disciples/associates of the apostles.<<

Is it credible that a total of 131 people occupied this room while awaiting Pentecost?


Israel - Upper Room - YouTube
A couple of points here:

First you are confusing Acts chap. 1, where they were gathered to vote a replacement for Judas, with the gathering of disciples on the day of Pentecost.

What's my point? Why were there 120 disciples to elect Matthias?. (Acts 1:15-26) The number required to assemble a Jewish council is 120.

Now when Peter and the other followers were gathered together on the day of Pentecost; first it doesn't say there were 120 of them. And second it doesn't say they were in the upper room.

Third, they were in the temple; not a house. How do we know this? The same Greek word "oikos" translated "house" in (Acts 2:2), was actually translated "Temple" in (Luke 11:51).

And there were devout Jews from every Nation in Jerusalem that day. Would they have gone to a house or would they have gathered in the Jewish Temple? Obviously, as was their custom, they would have gone to the Temple.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:03 PM
 
697 posts, read 858,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post

The problem with declaring that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions ... in some areas, --- is that it eliminates any credible basis for declaring ANY of it true. And, that being the case, what possible difference do perceived contradictions or errors make?
Don't be silly. Of course we have discernment for what is true. You have so little confidence in the Holy Spirit?
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:40 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
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i am hispanic and you can for sure fit that many in there. my dad use to fit 10-15 of us in a car. he would easily fit that many of his friends in there. smile
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Oregon
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The story of Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus found in Acts of the Apostles doesn't appear anywhere in Paul’s own writings

In fact, what happened after Paul’s visit to Damascus, is contradicted by Paul’s letters.

According to Acts 9, following Paul's conversion he spent a little time in Damascus and then traveled to Jereusalem where he met the apostles

Acts 9:23-26 "23 After some time had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night so that they might kill him; 25but his disciples took him by night and let him down through an opening in the wall,* lowering him in a basket.26 When he had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples; and they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple. (NRSV

But Paul's own epistle to the Galations tells us:

Galatians 1: 15 -18 "But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son to me,* so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus. Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and stayed with him for fifteen (NRSV

So did Paul get lowered over the wall and escape Damascus and travel to Jerusalem, or did he go to Arabia and spend three years there

Here we have a contradiction in two writings both of which are supposed to be inspired and thus inerrant.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-11-2012 at 07:50 AM.. Reason: removed brackets
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,882,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cledussnow View Post
Thank you for finally starting another thread where debates like this can take place without hindering the other thread, where we respect each others views even though we may not agree with them.

I agree. That number in that room seems pretty hard to believe.
RESPONSE:

Yes. Those who want to build a belief system on folklore probably don't want to have contradictions pointed out to them.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 04-11-2012 at 07:55 AM.. Reason: typo
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