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Old 04-15-2012, 10:12 AM
 
238 posts, read 269,953 times
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Perhaps you're curious as to where man’s sin nature came from?


I call it a "fiasco" because the Jews don't believe it, nor do many "Christians".
And the Muslims really freak out about it (their Qur'an says man just chooses to sin).
P.S. Born-again Christians are the only people who have the Holy Spirit revealing spiritual Truth to them.

David explains why all humans are sinners … their inherited sin nature
“Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” (Psalm 51:5)
“The wicked (sons of men, verse 1) are estranged from the womb;
they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.” (Psalm 58:3)


David tells of the disasterous consequences
“The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men … They have all turned aside,
they have all become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” (Psalm 14:2-3)
“God looks down from heaven upon the children of men … Every one of them has turned aside;
they have all become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” (Psalm 53:2-3)
“… for in Your sight no one living is righteous.” (Psalm 143:2)


Solomon was the wisest and most influential king in Israel’s history
“When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin) …” (1 Kings 8:46)
“When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin) …” (2 Chronicles 6:36)
“Who can say, ‘I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin’?” (Proverbs 20:9)
“For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)


Job was blameless and upright
This means he shunned evil and sin, but when he did slip, he immediately
and sincerely repented… which is the absolute best any human can do.
“Man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble. …
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one!” (Job 14:1-4)

All humans have the sin nature, so how could any offspring not have the sin nature?
This “man who is born of woman” theme is repeated in Job 15:14-16 and Job 25:4.

Isaiah addresses Israel
“For I knew that you (Israel) … were called a transgressor from the womb.” (Isaiah 48:8)
“For we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like
filthy rags (women’s menstral cloths)” (Isaiah 64:6)

All of the Israelites were born sinners … and everyone else is also.

Why didn’t Moses seem to have this revelation?
God gave Moses the all-important Ten Commandments at a critical time.
It was very understandable and necessary that Moses was not told about man’s hopeless
sin nature, and that it was totally impossible for the Israelites to follow God’s Law.
Moses had to be in the most positive, encouraging, and demanding mode possible
to give the Israelites the maximum chance to succeed at following God’s Law.
Yes, God gave them every opportunity to succeed, but they failed miserably.

The main reason for God giving the Law
God gave the Law to PROVE that it is totally impossible for man to please Him.
So, everyone is a sinner, and no one is acceptable to be with God for all of eternity.
God needed to intervene somehow, if ANYONE was to have ANY chance of Heaven.

Jews … how can you not believe in original sin?
Muslims … how can you say God’s prophets were all sinless?
Christians … how can you especially not believe in original sin?


Jesus told His 12 disciples that they were evil
“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children …” (Luke 11:13)
Do you think Jesus purposely chose evil men to be His disciples?
No, of course not … He is simply saying that all men are evil.

Jesus understood man’s disasterous spiritual condition
“Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His
name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them,
because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should tell Him about man,
for He knew what was in man.” (John 2:23-25)
Jesus explains: “I am He who searches the minds and hearts.” (Revelation 2:23)
“Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries,
fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.” (Matthew 15:19)
John 2 above occurred months before the Holy Spirit took Jesus’ place (John 14:16-26).
The Pharisees said to a man,
“You were completely born in sins …” (John 9:34)


Paul (the Hebrew scholar) just repeated what his Old Covenant Scriptures say
“As it is written: ‘There is none righteous, no, not one … there is none who does good,
no, not one.’ ” (Romans 3:10-12). Paul is quoting here from Psalm 53:2-3.
“The Scripture has confined all under sin …” (Galatians 3:22)
“… through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,
and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned …” (Romans 5:12)
“… through one man’s offense judgment came to all men,
resulting in condemnation … in Adam all die …” (1 Corinthians 15:18, 22)
“And you He made alive, who were (spiritually) dead in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1-3)


Why did God want a sinless human (but there wasn’t one)?
One of God's major laws: Sin must result in physical and spiritual death.
Man has a BIG problem … all humans are hopeless sinners, incapable of
atoning for their sins, and doomed to lose Heaven and gain Hell.
God has BIG grace … and He stepped in with an incredibly ingenious plan.
God said, “I'm sinless ... I'll die in their place.”
And He miraculously produced His perfect sinless human (Jesus) (Luke 1:26-35).
And Jesus shedding His blood would satisfy God's ancient blood covenant.
But, why also have Jesus be totally and fully God?
It’s just an infinitely more impressive demonstration of His love for us.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:40 AM
 
63,566 posts, read 39,855,129 times
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Default Researching the "original sin" fiasco

What we are born in is ignorance and complete immaturity of Spirit. We have to learn about Good and Evil (as Adam and Eve did) . . . and we have to mature enough to have the agape love and self-control to choose Good over Evil when our animal urges would have us choose Evil. No one is born fully mature or fully knowledgeable about Good and Evil, period. That is the whole point of the lessons in the scriptures about our spiritual evolution from immature primitive animals to mature Spirits in Christ. The OT groomed our immature species through fear of God (beginning of wisdom) and made the "fields ripe for the harvest" when Christ arrived to show us the Way through "love of God and each other" and remove the fear of death. Sin is "missing the mark" in ignorance or willfulness, period.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:04 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
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We learn good and evil by living, we commit sin by making bad choices.

No biblical mumbo jumbo involved.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:08 PM
 
120 posts, read 119,050 times
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we are born innocent ,.,its the corrupted world and its conditioning that teaches us to "sin" teaches us hatred, jealousy, greed etc..
children are not the problem,, the grown people (us) are the ones that need to change.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:36 PM
 
9,677 posts, read 9,971,995 times
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Basically the original sin come from Genesis 2, and 3... ``When the Lord God took the man, saying Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat.....But of the tree of good and evil , you will not eat of it for in the day that you eat of this tree, you will surely die``.... So the man and the women defy the Lord God and eat of the tree in full disobedience , along with the serpent devil who lead them ... So Adam became possessed by the authority of the devil , and God removed the blessing of eternal life for the man , and the women and this is were the original sin came , as the children of the man and the Women inherited the sin of the Fathers and this original sin has never been lifted from the world even through past the cross of Jesus Christ, ...Where only obedient believer of Jesus Christ many have limited victory to over come the world in their temporal life on the earth , and those who become obedient to the command and receive Jesus spirit , will find heaven as their home .. were the earth is the place were believers will help others to come and know Jesus as their saviour... See the original sin and the extortion of iniquity is brought to you by the devil and his fallen angels along with demons spirits....... See In Colossians 1: 12-14...........``Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.....Who has delivered us from the powers of darkness, and has translated us to the Kingdom of His Dear Son......In whom we have redemption through his blood , even the forgiveness of sins``...
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:10 PM
 
238 posts, read 269,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
We learn good and evil by living, we commit sin by making bad choices. No biblical mumbo jumbo involved.
God arranged for us to be given the whole scoop ...
and you can start by realizing than man has no choice but to sin!

Of course, I'm not necessarily talking about 24/7 ... Gee, ain't I nice after all?

Mature Christians with some wisdom realize that man breaks at least one of The Ten Commandments every day!
This takes just a bit of explaining, but ... on deaf ears ... maybe later ...
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:15 PM
 
63,566 posts, read 39,855,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post
God arranged for us to be given the whole scoop ...
and you can start by realizing than man has no choice but to sin!
Utter nonsense! Of course we have a choice AND the capability NOT to sin . . . that is the whole point of spiritual maturity. This fatalistic garbage has been the bane of Christianity corrupting Christ's message and example of how we are to be with ancient ignorance and superstition.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:49 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,385,953 times
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Apostle Paul had a lot to say about sin in Romans 7. Here is the ending of the chapter -

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:54 PM
 
238 posts, read 269,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Of course we have a choice AND the capability NOT to sin . . . that is the whole point of spiritual maturity.
Here's a sweet question for you ...
Why did Jesus tell His 12 beloved disciples that they were evil (see Luke 11:13)?

And ... Did you read through the OP?

You are "in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin" (Romans 7:25) ... and don't even know it.
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,996 posts, read 29,823,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
...as the children of the man and the Women inherited the sin of the Fathers and this original sin has never been lifted from the world even through past the cross of Jesus Christ...
Why do you not believe Jesus Christ's atonement covered Adam's sin if it covered yours, and more importantly, where does the Bible teach that Jesus never atoned for Adam's sin?
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