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Old 04-17-2012, 10:23 PM
 
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Did anyone read this book?
Amazon.com: The Sign: The Shroud of Turin and the Secret of the Resurrection (9780525953654): Thomas de Wesselow: Books
It offers a different idea about the role the shroud played in Christianity.
What do you think?
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,170 posts, read 3,725,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Did anyone read this book?
Amazon.com: The Sign: The Shroud of Turin and the Secret of the Resurrection (9780525953654): Thomas de Wesselow: Books
It offers a different idea about the role the shroud played in Christianity.
What do you think?
My belief is that the shroud has been proven a fraud by science. This is a sad thing, because I always wanted it to be authentic, from my youngest days in Catholic school.

That said, to a believer in Jesus and the message of Jesus, it should not matter one way or another. Whether or not the shroud or any other relic is authentic or not will not matter to anyone who believes in Jesus and the message of Jesus.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
My belief is that the shroud has been proven a fraud by science. This is a sad thing, because I always wanted it to be authentic, from my youngest days in Catholic school.

That said, to a believer in Jesus and the message of Jesus, it should not matter one way or another. Whether or not the shroud or any other relic is authentic or not will not matter to anyone who believes in Jesus and the message of Jesus.
Turin Shroud 'was created by flash of supernatural light' | Mail Online
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Did anyone read this book?
Amazon.com: The Sign: The Shroud of Turin and the Secret of the Resurrection (9780525953654): Thomas de Wesselow: Books
It offers a different idea about the role the shroud played in Christianity.
What do you think?
It's hard to judge since no explanation is given of why it is thought to be authentic.

In fact, Chuckmann, you can cheer up, because the C14 date has been challenged with some reason. While some of the evidence in favour of the shroud dating from 1st century Judea has also be shown dubious, the actual details of the image itself are remarkably correct.

That said, I shouldn't get your hopes up too much, since the flatness of the image (however it came to be made, or when) pretty much scuppers the idea that it could ever have been draped over, much less wrapped around, the body.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:57 PM
 
Location: La Cañada
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Well, actually, I remember studying this a good deal. If I may:

The carbon-dating was done on a piece sewed on in later centuries, from the corner/edge, so as not to disrupt the image. New carbon dating does seem to point to earlier origin.

Scientists from JPL (Jet Propulsion Lab near Pasadena in LA) used a special camera, called a VP8 Image Analyzer, under which normal images will be sunken in (that is 2D images will be distorted greatly). Using the VP8, they examined the Shroud and saw that it was still in order and not disrupted. That is a clear sign that it was created from a 3D image...in this case, Christ's face.
And if you look at the sudarium of Jesus, the blood type matches with the Shroud, despite their separate pasts.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
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The proof of Christ lies within our faith that he is now alive within us through the Holy Spirit...not in relics others claim were his burial cloth, not the cup he supposedly drank from at the last supper or splinters from the tree he was hung on..
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:29 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,217,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
The proof of Christ lies within our faith that he is now alive within us through the Holy Spirit...not in relics others claim were his burial cloth, not the cup he supposedly drank from at the last supper or splinters from the tree he was hung on..
Amen, Miss Blue!! We have a Living God who abides with us and His Holy Spirit is available within our consciousness . . . if we will only listen.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,170 posts, read 3,725,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
The proof of Christ lies within our faith that he is now alive within us through the Holy Spirit...not in relics others claim were his burial cloth, not the cup he supposedly drank from at the last supper or splinters from the tree he was hung on..
eggsactly, Miss Blue!
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,170 posts, read 3,725,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCalifornianWriter View Post
Well, actually, I remember studying this a good deal. If I may:

The carbon-dating was done on a piece sewed on in later centuries, from the corner/edge, so as not to disrupt the image. New carbon dating does seem to point to earlier origin.

Scientists from JPL (Jet Propulsion Lab near Pasadena in LA) used a special camera, called a VP8 Image Analyzer, under which normal images will be sunken in (that is 2D images will be distorted greatly). Using the VP8, they examined the Shroud and saw that it was still in order and not disrupted. That is a clear sign that it was created from a 3D image...in this case, Christ's face.
And if you look at the sudarium of Jesus, the blood type matches with the Shroud, despite their separate pasts.
In the 70's, there was a syndicated TV series called "In Search Of" narrated by Leonard Nimoy. One of the episodes covered the shroud of Turin. And during that episode a demonstration was given as to how precisely the images of the shroud could have been created.

I had not heard of further radio carbon dating. I will read any work more recent than the 80's.

There is faith. There is science. I do not believe that science originated anyplace other than God. Nor do I believe that believers in Jesus and His message need fear that science disproves their faith.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:14 AM
 
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I rather agree. Science can never disprove Faith. But it can disprove false claims. And the Faithful should have the desire to believe only the true claims about their Faith, and not the false. If their faith is true, then it has nothing to fear from science, facts and the truth.
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