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I really don't know what KIND of universalist I am. I don't concern myself with affiliation in that regard. I am just one that trys to align with the Word of God.
If you don't consider yourself universalist, what do you consider yourself? What group do you worship with? Are you a christian? What's the difference between a universalist and a christian universalist?
Another poster said universalists don't need to accept Jesus as savior or have faith to be saved. Do you agree?
I'm not looking to debate. Just trying to figure things out. No offense meant by my questions.
Katie
I am a believer, no idea what the difference between a universalist and a Christian universalist. I believe in knowing God through His Son, because Jesus revealed God to us.
They should be saying just as adamantly about the supposed "incorrect" postion of athesists of being there is no God, no afterlife.
UR should be standing on it perverbial head and confront anyone who is athesist persuasion that the athesist will:
have to acknowledge an afterlife,
a "God" (whatever that turns out to be for the UR)
and whats more they will (not might) bow their knee in belief to this "God)
I find it that since they do not oppose the greater amount of what UR considers false from a community which disagrees with them, it is then selective intolerance on UR's part.
If the motivation of URers were simply prove they are right and all else are wrong, then they might debate atheists with the same passion as they debate ETers. But, I don't think that is what is driving them.
Perhaps what drives URers to debate ETers is not so much trying to prove they are right, but trying to combat the fear mongering accompanied with threats of hell from those who believe in a (not-loving) God who could eternally torment people.
Many URers may not have as much of an issue with atheists as we aren't promoting fear and intolerance. Besides, if we all eventually get reconciled to God anyway, why fret so much over whether we believe the same as they do now or later.
I am very interested in knowing more of the full revelation of God.
The full revelation of God was.
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.” ....
The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am he.” John 4:10, 25-26
Hi Katie, if I may interject here, this is an interesting example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
For example: Jesus says the only ones who can get into heaven are those who do the will of the Father. That is truth IMHO. But someone else may say differently and believe it is truth. So who has the truth?
Ok. Lets examine this statement. Did Jesus actually say what you said above? NO he did not. Let me explain.
First of all, Jesus did not speak English. But lets set that aside for now.
This is what He actually said, according to our English translations:
Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Do you see the difference here? It is the kingdom of heaven that Christ is talking about, not heaven. Now consider that the Kingdom of heaven is also called the kingdom of God and the reign of God, and we are also told the Kingdom is among us, here, right now.
So unknowingly, you have inserted an idea into the text, that Jesus was talking about some place far off we should try to get to AKA "heaven", but instead maybe he was actually talking about the kingdom reign of the elect. So what is the "Kingdom"? That is a very large topic...
Much of Christ's gospel is preaching about the kingdom - if you go into it with a preconceived idea that kingdom=heaven then you will come to a much different conclusion than understanding the kingdom might be something else.
Consider this: people still might be saved even if they don't enter the Kingdom reign.
Just some different ideas to consider, that may vary with what you think the truth is.
It's not a term we're likely to use in describing ourselves, but essentially we do believe that when all is said and done, almost all will be saved. Many will be punished for their own sins, due to their refusal to accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice on their behalf, but once they have paid the price for their wrongdoings, they will acknowledge that a better way had been offered them and they had stubbornly refused it.
But Jesus already "paid the price for everyone's wrongdoings". In John 12:27 Jesus tells us, "Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.
People need to acknowledge and accept God's act of grace now. We need to do the acknowledging of this act of Jesus now, while we are living. People need to stop refusing it now. It is only in this life that we are offered this gift of grace. Accept it now.
Hebrews 9:27 tells us "man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment". Believe it!
But Jesus already "paid the price for everyone's wrongdoings". In John 12:27 Jesus tells us, "Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.
People need to acknowledge and accept God's act of grace now. We need to do the acknowledging of this act of Jesus now, while we are living. People need to stop refusing it now. It is only in this life that we are offered this gift of grace. Accept it now.
Hebrews 9:27 tells us "man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment". Believe it!
Peace.
There was a purpose why Jesus also said: "it is finished"
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33
People need to acknowledge and accept God's act of grace now. We need to do the acknowledging of this act of Jesus now, while we are living. People need to stop refusing it now. It is only in this life that we are offered this gift of grace. Accept it now.
2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “Inthe time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.
If the motivation of URers were simply prove they are right and all else are wrong, then they might debate atheists with the same passion as they debate ETers. But, I don't think that is what is driving them.
Perhaps what drives URers to debate ETers is not so much trying to prove they are right, but trying to combat the fear mongering accompanied with threats of hell from those who believe in a (not-loving) God who could eternally torment people.
Many URers may not have as much of an issue with atheists as we aren't promoting fear and intolerance. Besides, if we all eventually get reconciled to God anyway, why fret so much over whether we believe the same as they do now or later.
Bingo.
Sadly it is the mainstream church that is generating this fear that drives people away from God and causes others to live in fear their whole lives. This is where the message of reconciliation is needed to be heard most.
2 Cor 5:18
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
This is the message of universal reconciliation - He is not counting people's sins against them.
There was a purpose why Jesus also said: "it is finished"
If it is finished, then it is done. Jesus did all the work on the cross. There is nothing we can do to add to that salvation, lest we would boast in it.
Jesus actually did it - He is the savior of all.
Quote:
2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “Inthe time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.
now is the time .... now is the day!
But it is not the only day.
This again, is a very slight mistranslation error. It is not THE day of salvation, but A day of salvation.
Here is the literal translation from the concordant literal.
2 Cor 6:2 For He is saying, "In a season acceptable I reply to you, And in a day of salvation I help you." Lo! Now is a most acceptable era! Lo! Now is a day of salvation!
Check it out yourself.
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