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Old 04-18-2012, 05:25 PM
 
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I am the first to admit, I know next to nothing about universalism. I could probably put this question into google, but seeing there seems to be so many universalists on CD, I thought my questions could be better answered here.

1. Do all universalists consider themselves christians?

2. Are there different kinds of universalists? What are they?

3. Are some atheists universalists?

4. Are some agnostics universalists?

5. Do all universalists believe that eternal torment is non existent?

6. What is unitarian universalism?

7. Do universalists believe in the trinity?

8. Do universalists believe that Jesus is deity?

9. Do all universalists believe in UR?

I didn't start this thread to debate whether universalism is right or wrong. I'm just trying to understand where so many of you are coming from.

I don't expect anyone to answer all of my questions, and I really hope they don't sound too silly.

Most of you are familiar enough with my posts to know that I believe the Bible is the inspired and infallible word of God. Please don't expect me to change. I don't expect you to change either. That's not what this thread is about, so...

Educate me please.

Katie
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:15 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 5,969,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
I am the first to admit, I know next to nothing about universalism. I could probably put this question into google, but seeing there seems to be so many universalists on CD, I thought my questions could be better answered here.
Hi Katie,

I'll give it a shot. Keep in mind "universalism" is just a label. There is not really a denomination of universalism, if that's what you are thinking. Except for Unitarian Universalism, which I don't know much about.

So for your questions below, I'll assume, by universalism, you mean belief that everyone will be saved, without taking into consideration how that will happen.

1. Do all universalists consider themselves christians?

No, not necessarily.

2. Are there different kinds of universalists? What are they?

Not sure... there are as many different beliefs as there are peope. If you are talking about Christian universalists, then they believe the bible teaches the salvation of all, and that our modern English translations have been subtly corrupted to insert the doctrine of eternal torment.

3. Are some atheists universalists?
4. Are some agnostics universalists
?

Probably not, but I don't know... by definition they don't believe in God, or don't have a position on God...

5. Do all universalists believe that eternal torment is non existent?

Mostly... there's not really any eternal torment existing if no one is tormented forever, and everyone is saved. Some believe that perhaps only the devil is torment forever. I don't see the point...

6. What is unitarian universalism?

Don't know too much about it.

7. Do universalists believe in the trinity?

Some do, some don't.

8. Do universalists believe that Jesus is deity?

Some do, some don't. Christian universalist's probably would.

9. Do all universalists believe in UR?

UR is another name for universalism. UR = universal reconciliation, ie. all are reconciled back to God, therefore by definition all are saved. I suppose someone might think people are saved without being reconciled... I don't know, but its not what I believe nor is it what scripture says.


Quote:
I didn't start this thread to debate whether universalism is right or wrong. I'm just trying to understand where so many of you are coming from.

I don't expect anyone to answer all of my questions, and I really hope they don't sound too silly.

Most of you are familiar enough with my posts to know that I believe the Bible is the inspired and infallible word of God. Please don't expect me to change. I don't expect you to change either. That's not what this thread is about, so...

Educate me please.

Katie
No problem. Hope that helps.

One thing to keep in mind - what I find happens is someone gets called a "universalist" and then is simply swept away as one of those... without actually trying to understand what they believe. Universalism is just a label which doesn't tell the whole story. So that is why some of your questions are hard, there are many beliefs. But the common theme, especially of those in this forum, is that God sent His son to save all people, and He will achieve exactly that: All will be saved through His son.

For my case, I would call myself a believer in universal reconciliation, and a believer in the scriptures. Even so I realize that the English translations we have are not perfect and are not translated accurately or interpreted correctly in a few small instances. You bring up the infallibility of the bible - and to a certain extent I agree, if we are talking about the original scriptures. The problem is there ARE errors in the translations we have. Even simple typographical errors. So to say the English translations are infallible is simple ignorance of the facts.

The easiest thing I find to understand is this:
God's will and desire is to save all people.
Who's going to say that God won't get what He desires or achieve His will?
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:24 PM
 
467 posts, read 325,197 times
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Quote:
1. Do all universalists consider themselves christians?
katiemygirl To be "Christian" you must believe in the "Trinity"!

So considering this.. I have to say; "No they are NOT Christian!"
Dogknox
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:36 PM
 
34,443 posts, read 22,058,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
katiemygirl To be "Christian" you must believe in the "Trinity"!

So considering this.. I have to say; "No they are NOT Christian!"
Dogknox
Did you mistype your name . . . is it God . . . knox? . . . because ONLY God can make that call
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:40 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 5,969,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
katiemygirl To be "Christian" you must believe in the "Trinity"!

So considering this.. I have to say; "No they are NOT Christian!"
Dogknox
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Did you mistype your name . . . is it God . . . knox? . . . because ONLY God can make that call
Indeed... in fact the trinity issue is orthogonal to the universalism issue.

There are Christians, who don't believe all are saved, and ALSO don't believe in the trinity. Yet they still follow Christ.

Generally one is a Christian - if they follow Christ - believe in what He taught, believe He was the son of God, believe He was the very image of the Father, and believe He was sent to be the savior of the world.

Not sure if this helps Katie.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
6,697 posts, read 7,057,550 times
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Univeralists believe that it is not necessary to accept Jesus as savior to be saved before you die. Everyone gets saved. No need to become a Christian. You'll be fine regardless. After a period of cleansing.

So no worries to the atheist, the agnostics and to those who reject Jesus.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:54 PM
 
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Katie, I hope you are taking notes. The below is what happens when someone who doesn't care to understand Christian universalism tries to explain things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Univeralists believe that it is not necessary to accept Jesus as savior to be saved before you die. Everyone gets saved.
True
Quote:
So no worries to the atheist, the agnostics and to those who reject Jesus.
No.
Why do you think "no worries"? There are always consequences. No one escapes the consequences of their own actions.

It seems you operate under the paradigm that the threat of eternal hell is needed to keep people in line. That is what the Roman Catholic Church thought for hundreds of years and caused much damage with that type of thinking.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:58 PM
 
34,443 posts, read 22,058,367 times
Reputation: 5563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Univeralists believe that it is not necessary to accept Jesus as savior to be saved before you die. Everyone gets saved. No need to become a Christian. You'll be fine regardless. After a period of cleansing.
So no worries to the atheist, the agnostics and to those who reject Jesus.
You always get this wrong and seem immune to correction. We have nothing to do with our salvation either through belief or works or anything else. Christ accomplished that for us ALL. But we do need to achieve sanctification . . . either in this life or the next. We achieve it through "love of God and each other" and repentance when we don't. Either way we will reap what we sow for anything we do not repent of in this life . . . but we are all saved "as if by fire."
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:04 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 5,969,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You always get this wrong and seem immune to correction. We have nothing to do with our salvation either through belief or works or anything else. Christ accomplished that for us ALL. But we do need to achieve sanctification . . . either in this life or the next. We achieve it through "love of God and each other" and repentance when we don't. Either way we will reap what we sow for anything we do not repent of in this life . . . but we are all saved "as if by fire."
Yes, another good point Mystic, which I should have pointed out.

Mr5150 comes from the angle that we must somehow do something to be saved, therefore we are the authors of our own salvation - we choose our own fate, nevermind most people never get such a clear choice. One cannot really choose a belief. If you disagree, try this experiment: choose to believe in the easter bunny, and really mean it!

Generally most universalists I've come across are more willing to understand that God's sovereignty means He is the one who does the saving, not us.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,134,198 times
Reputation: 1575
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Yes, another good point Mystic, which I should have pointed out.

One cannot really choose a belief. If you disagree, try this experiment: choose to believe in the easter bunny, and really mean it!
Are you trying to tell me the Easter Bunny isn't real? Next you'll be attacking Santa Claus!
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Generally most universalists I've come across are more willing to understand that God's sovereignty means He is the one who does the saving, not us.
How could it be otherwise? Even Jesus acknowledged that it was the Father who does the work in us and that he could do nothing he did not see the Father doing. God is adamant about his sovereignty over all the works of his hands. If man could save himself, he would not need God.
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