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Old 04-23-2012, 08:51 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 493,918 times
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I believe that "good works" for God should be thought of as "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" (words of Jesus from Matt 6:3).

"Good works" should be done of from the heart, without self-acknowledgement of even having done them.

I do not believe God finds favor in "good deeds" that are performed because of some sort of outside pressure or requirement.

God looks at our hearts, not our outsides or actions. He knows the true reasons why we do what we do. We cannot fool Him. If something is not done from the heart, do not think you are pleasing God.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:07 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 1,628,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
I believe that "good works" for God should be thought of as "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" (words of Jesus from Matt 6:3).

"Good works" should be done of from the heart, without self-acknowledgement of even having done them.

I do not believe God finds favor in "good deeds" that are performed because of some sort of outside pressure or requirement.

God looks at our hearts, not our outsides or actions. He knows the true reasons why we do what we do. We cannot fool Him. If something is not done from the heart, do not think you are pleasing God.
Amen!

God doesn't want a better man but a New man! It's not about putting makeup on the pig, but a new Creation.

It's all about the heart.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:24 AM
Status: "Attacks in self-defense only." (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Salt Lake City
13,892 posts, read 9,526,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
If grace can not be "earned," then it has been freely given to everyone, right?
Technically speaking, if a person says you don't have to "earn" grace, you only have to have faith in Christ, he's contradicting himself. Having faith is an "act" or a "work." It may not be a work involving physical exertion, but it is definitely a work requiring a mental commitment to trust in someone. True grace would have to be given to all mankind, regardless of whether someone believed in Christ or not.

I see "salvation" as having multiple layers of meaning. One might be referred to as "justification" and another as "sanctification." The Bible tells us that "... as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." With respect to salvation from the permanence of death, Christ's grace truly is unconditional. All will be resurrected. All will live again. Those whose belief is entirely passive will be given a much greater reward than those who don't. Those who demonstrate their faith through obedience to Christ's commandments (i.e. whose works prove their faith in genuine and not merely talk) will be given an even greater reward. The scriptures say that "...the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every manaccording to his works." If you believe that passage, you've got to acknowledge that our works do matter, even if it's not our works -- but Christ's grace -- that ultimately saves us.

One last thought... It's kind of like the situation that could exist with a murderer given a life sentence. In one sense, he may consider himself lucky since he was "saved" from execution. In another sense, he may consider himself "damned" since he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. It is not at all unbiblical to think of various degrees of salvation. Where there are greater works, there is a greater reward. That's just common sense, and it's how Jesus Christ himself said it would be.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,659,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Amen!

God doesn't want a better man but a New man! It's not about putting makeup on the pig, but a new Creation.

It's all about the heart.
Agreed.

Question: at what point does that New Man begin to manifest itself? We read in the book of Acts that the Lord "opened Lydia's heart."

Does God open everybody's heart like that? No. But He can if He chooses.


Blessings,
brian
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,659,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Technically speaking, if a person says you don't have to "earn" grace, you only have to have faith in Christ, he's contradicting himself. Having faith is an "act" or a "work." It may not be a work involving physical exertion, but it is definitely a work requiring a mental commitment to trust in someone. True grace would have to be given to all mankind, regardless of whether someone believed in Christ or not.

I see "salvation" as having multiple layers of meaning. One might be referred to as "justification" and another as "sanctification." The Bible tells us that "... as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." With respect to salvation from the permanence of death, Christ's grace truly is unconditional. All will be resurrected. All will live again. Those whose belief is entirely passive will be given a much greater reward than those who don't. Those who demonstrate their faith through obedience to Christ's commandments (i.e. whose works prove their faith in genuine and not merely talk) will be given an even greater reward. The scriptures say that "...the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every manaccording to his works." If you believe that passage, you've got to acknowledge that our works do matter, even if it's not our works -- but Christ's grace -- that ultimately saves us.

One last thought... It's kind of like the situation that could exist with a murderer given a life sentence. In one sense, he may consider himself lucky since he was "saved" from execution. In another sense, he may consider himself "damned" since he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. It is not at all unbiblical to think of various degrees of salvation. Where there are greater works, there is a greater reward. That's just common sense, and it's how Jesus Christ himself said it would be.
Agreed. In fact, reading your post just now, that scripture came to mind where Jesus says "Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing."

Here Jesus shows us that "prison" is for a period, not eternal. So there are "degrees" indeed.


Blessings,
brian
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:40 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 1,628,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Technically speaking, if a person says you don't have to "earn" grace, you only have to have faith in Christ, he's contradicting himself. Having faith is an "act" or a "work." It may not be a work involving physical exertion, but it is definitely a work requiring a mental commitment to trust in someone. True grace would have to be given to all mankind, regardless of whether someone believed in Christ or not.
Having Faith is an act/work of God not man.

Ephesians 2:8
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So there is no contradiction as Faith is not a "work" of man. It is a Gift.

Quote:
I see "salvation" as having multiple layers of meaning. One might be referred to as "justification" and another as "sanctification." The Bible tells us that "... as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." With respect to salvation from the permanence of death, Christ's grace truly is unconditional. All will be resurrected. All will live again. Those whose belief is entirely passive will be given a much greater reward than those who don't. Those who demonstrate their faith through obedience to Christ's commandments (i.e. whose works prove their faith in genuine and not merely talk) will be given an even greater reward. The scriptures say that "...the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every manaccording to his works." If you believe that passage, you've got to acknowledge that our works do matter, even if it's not our works -- but Christ's grace -- that ultimately saves us.

One last thought... It's kind of like the situation that could exist with a murderer given a life sentence. In one sense, he may consider himself lucky since he was "saved" from execution. In another sense, he may consider himself "damned" since he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. It is not at all unbiblical to think of various degrees of salvation. Where there are greater works, there is a greater reward. That's just common sense, and it's how Jesus Christ himself said it would be.

There is one condition for to receive God's Grace


Hebrews 7:24-25

24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

John 14:6

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10

1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 3

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The one condition for Life is that we come to God by Messiah Jesus. One is either Justified (Saved from Damnation) or not. Faithfulness or lack thereof will determine our eternal destiny in God's Kingdom.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:48 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 1,628,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Question: at what point does that New Man begin to manifest itself?
The new man becomes manifest the moment one is Baptized by the Holy Ghost upon believing. It is a starting gun not a finish line in their Spiritual growth. It takes time to mold us into the image of his Son Jesus Christ.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:55 AM
 
2,265 posts, read 831,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson View Post
I figured I should start a thread rather than bring up a side issue on someone elses thread. I have a question for those who believe that "good works" are part of being justified before God. So here's the question. When do you know when you've done enough good works? Is there a minimum requirement? Is there a minimum quota each year? Does it depend on your ability or opportunity? I mean, when is enough good works enough to qualify you for heaven. Does this mean when you reach the gates of heaven, St. Peter looks over your stats, and tells you no dice", cause you just missed it?
It has nothing to do with how much works a man does but rather if one is lead of the Spirit and doing what God knows to be good for you or that of others. Some have one talent, some five, some ten and more. All are lead differently and as it is written, "Those who measure themselves among themselves are not wise." because the pathway is different for all.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:06 AM
 
6,957 posts, read 16,144,113 times
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If someone does a 'good work' because it helps get them to heaven (or whatever reward you seek) then, I think they have missed the boat.

You don't do good works because of what it will do for you.....but because of what it does for the other person.

When, and if, you feel that you have done enough, you need to take another look at your situation. We can never do enough for someone else. BUT, (and this is important) sometimes we need to put ourselves first in order to do more for others.

For example. Someone spends everyday helping at a homeless shelter. Wonderful! But if they are too tired when they get home to spend some time taking care of their own children, they have made the wrong choice.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: In the♥of Jesus !
9,569 posts, read 5,155,653 times
Reputation: 17610
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
I believe that "good works" for God should be thought of as "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" (words of Jesus from Matt 6:3).

"Good works" should be done of from the heart, without self-acknowledgement of even having done them.

I do not believe God finds favor in "good deeds" that are performed because of some sort of outside pressure or requirement.

God looks at our hearts, not our outsides or actions. He knows the true reasons why we do what we do. We cannot fool Him. If something is not done from the heart, do not think you are pleasing God.
Amen... saved33 !

A Christian walking in the Spirit will not recognize nor acknowledge what the left or right hand is doing... it becomes a automatic reaction, an attitude of the heart as they have been born again and clothed with the new nature, the righteousness of Christ, acting upon the new nature within them.

.... they become the hands, feet, and mouth of God, amen !!

Matt.25:33-46
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?

39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’


41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 04-23-2012 at 11:26 AM.. Reason: added scripture
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