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Your view of God is very ancient and primitive, for your conclusions are based on the same writers who wrote that God is Just .. which then there is no other conclusion other than God being:
"jealous, megalomaniacal, vengeful, genocidal, commander of bashing babies heads on rocks, raping and murder of men, women, children, infants, and their unborn, and eternal tormentor who requires blood sacrifices of innocents to appease His anger and sense of justice"
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're driving at here.
Your view of God is very ancient and primitive, for your conclusions are based on the same writers who wrote that God is Just .. which then there is no other conclusion other than God being:
"jealous, megalomaniacal, vengeful, genocidal, commander of bashing babies heads on rocks, raping and murder of men, women, children, infants, and their unborn, and eternal tormentor who requires blood sacrifices of innocents to appease His anger and sense of justice"
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're driving at here.
Hi Pleroo,
Think about it, if people who quote from the same writers that wrote about those going to hell for rejecting God are told "Your view of God is very ancient and primitive" ... then what does that make those who quote the very same writers while trying to endorse UR ??? .......Your view of God is very ancient and primitive
It appears to me that the death of Jesus was brought about through human volition, given the political and religious powers of the day. Although at the same time, Jesus was fully aware that his message of love and what he represented to the status quo would ultimately lead to a violent death. Thus, his life was an issue in setting the captives free from the established sects of the day. But his death was not divinely foreordained as a penal substitution, whereas, there is no greater love than to lay one's own life down for that of another. Many are fixated on Jesus' death, and will accept nothing but the blood of Jesus, as "they know not, what they do." Although, there is only ONE whose undeniable innocence (not an ordinary victim) was able to change the process of scapegoating (a slaughterhouse religion, having a carnivorous diet). And, it’s a saving act of God; a victory over the powers of this world (men) and a defeat of death, reversing it through his Life and Resurrection. The cross may, indeed be, the centerpiece of the Christian religion, but it is not God's altar, or that of merely exchanging victims; bulls and goats for that of Christ as a substitution.
Your view of God is very ancient and primitive .... has to be if you're willing to quote and rely on the same writers that had Jesus damning people to hell for rejecting him.
Think about it, if people who quote from the same writers that wrote about those going to hell for rejecting God are told "Your view of God is very ancient and primitive" ... then what does that make those who quote the very same writers while trying to endorse UR ??? .......Your view of God is very ancient and primitive
Thanks for explaining. You guys are kind of funny. If someone explains their understanding without quoting bible verses, you insist it's not good enough for you. When someone draws from the bible, looking at it through the lens of Christ (which should transcend the ignorance of not only the ancients, but our own as well), that bugs you too.
Thanks for explaining. You guys are kind of funny. If someone explains their understanding without quoting bible verses, you insist it's not good enough for you. When someone draws from the bible, looking at it through the lens of Christ (which should transcend the ignorance of not only the ancients, but our own as well), that bugs you too.
Ps. To be clear, "the lens of Christ" means that truth will always be in harmony with the Spirit of God. The fruit of that spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness and faithfulness (Gal 5); and that fruit is in ALL truth (Eph 5). If what someone believes is truth doesn't line up with, and produce that fruit, then I know it's not truth.
Thanks for explaining. You guys are kind of funny. If someone explains their understanding without quoting bible verses, you insist it's not good enough for you. When someone draws from the bible, looking at it through the lens of Christ (which should transcend the ignorance of not only the ancients, but our own as well), that bugs you too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Ps. To be clear, "the lens of Christ" means that truth will always be in harmony with the Spirit of God. The fruit of that spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness and faithfulness (Gal 5); and that fruit is in ALL truth (Eph 5). If what someone believes is truth doesn't line up with, and produce that fruit, then I know it's not truth.
Let me redefined what " You guys are kind of funny" is.
Trying to maintain how somebody can be half pregnant and consider it to be fully intact.
For that is what universalists are trying to substantiate intellectually with a straight face by selectively quoting certain verses as being the truth to the exclusion of others not being on the same level or not at all truthful ... yet coming from the same Neanderthals writers without admitting that such selectivity means that you still are guilty of relying on Your view of God is very ancient and primitive is from the same Neanderthal writers.
Last edited by twin.spin; 03-15-2014 at 11:16 AM..
Reason: spacing gremlins
Let me redefined what " You guys are kind of funny" is.
Trying to maintain how somebody can be half pregnant and consider it to be fully intact.
For that is what universalists are trying to substantiate intellectually with a straight face by selectively quoting certain verses as being the truth to the exclusion of others not being on the same level or not at all truthful ... yet coming from the same Neanderthals writers without admitting that such selectivity means that you still are guilty of relying on Your view of God is very ancient and primitive is from the same Neanderthal writers.
I vaguely remember reading about some of the ancient scientists and mathematicians with my kids a few years ago. Some of what those men believed was sound, and some of it was not. The fields of math and science advanced most rapidly when people didn't discard the good, or hold onto the bad.
I vaguely remember reading about some of the ancient scientists and mathematicians with my kids a few years ago. Some of what those men believed was sound, and some of it was not. The fields of math and science advanced most rapidly when people didn't discard the good, or hold onto the bad.
meaning what .... scriptures are devalued to nothing more than subjectivity like what brand of toilet paper one should use and inform when people didn't discard the good, or hold onto the bad?
Let's say I am a citizen of the town of Whoville, in the country of Seussland. Now, say we are talking about something happening in the land of Whoville and I mention to you that I am a Whovilian. That doesn't exclude me from also being a citizen of Seussland, but in the conversation with you, the most relevant thing is that I happen to live in Whoville.
In Romans 16:25, Paul speaks of the "beginning of time"; in other words, the ages. And he is simply emphasizing that God is the God of all of those ages, since they began, and until they end. That doesn't mean that he will not also be God once there are no more ages, but simply that Paul's focus is on what's happening during the ages.
In the context of the verses, it doesn't really seem that's what he's saying to me... it might as well be any adjective describing God .. i.e. "according to the command of the beautiful God" Or "the Holy God". However "age-during God" doesn't make sense from any perspective, and it makes much more sense to mean "eternal God" If it actually meant "the God of all those ages" it would say that.
Quote:
Again, just because John was referring to life pertaining to the age, does not mean that that life will no longer exist after the ages end. If you want assurance of immortality, then look to the passages which speak of it specifically. Age-during life, as defined by the bible, has to do with knowing God/Love and having the abundant spiritual life that Jesus offered through following the Way that he explained and demonstrated. If there is an existence beyond the ages for any of us, then certainly that life will transcend those ages, just as God does.
If you are going to defend that aionias or it's different forms ONLY mean age or "pertaining to the age", then I don't think it's fair to apply special conditions for it in one case and not others. What I mean is that if you say "just because John was referring to life pertaining to the age, does not mean that that life will no longer exist after the ages end", then the same condition would have to apply to when Jesus says "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.’" Punishment could also exist after the age/ages end. (Which, Jesus does say punishment there, how do you explain that)
If sin and judgment (it seems you think judgment means punishment?) is your focus, because you believe that is God's focus, then that is what you will always see.
You have the choice of trying on a pair of different glasses (God being concerned with healing the condition of our spirit and not with punishment) just to see the view through them. You might be surprised at how it opens your heart and mind.
I've never said that I believe judgement is God's focus, I only hold to the fact that it is a reality for those who reject God as stated plainly in scripture. As far as what judgement is, a judgement I suppose is like a ruling, as a judge makes a decision in favor or against a party. Either a judge or a jury decides a person's guilt or innocence, and the judge or the law provides the punishment. So generally speaking, judgement does include a punishment for the guilty. I notice you didn't respond to the scripture I posted, which I think speaks very plainly.
2 Peter 2:4-10
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell[a] and committed them to chains[b] of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;[c] 7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked 8 (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials,[d] and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who indulge[e] in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.
These are very unambiguous statements, and the writer is making a very clear connection, showing that God has done and will continue to do what is consistent with His ENTIRE character as revealed to man by his actions and his word throughout history, recorded in the books of the Bible. I am not focused merely on God's judgement, for I could relate to Paul and say I might as well be the worst of sinners. I would even say that the main point of the Gospel IS that "grace abounds all the more" Thanks be to God! For "God delights in showing mercy" but that doesn't mean it is the ONLY point, nor does it mean he will force his goodness and mercy on you. You may not think it, but I honestly am considering what you say. However I cannot in good conscience excuse away the many scriptures like this one in order to say that God's wrath and judgement (which Jesus saved us from) are not realities for those who choose to remain at enmity with God, despite the gift of grace he freely offers.
Last edited by sekondary; 03-15-2014 at 05:11 PM..
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