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No, this isn't the old pastor next door to me, I don't think he would ever actually ask/expect such a thing. However, it is his SON! The senior pastor is our next door neighbor and his son is the asst pastor. It's funny, the senior pastor is "old fashioned" and all, but not NEAR as legalistic as his son is!
It's sad though, they will experience quite a loss when we're gone. Our congregation is maybe 40-50 people on a good day...and we contribute (not just tithing) A LOT to the church. My husband had hoped to make a difference there being the youth leader, but he will never be allowed to because the asst pastor always controls everything he can and cannot do!
BTW, she and her boyfriend WANT to go! They look forward to it! She knows how he feels about them going, but she doesn't care.
I do not know if you read my post in the Mithraism thread. But I actually left a church that bold told there congregation that they do not marry boyfriend and girlfriend that live together. They also made it clear that they do not accept them in the church. I do not care who the person is. They can be the pope or a pastor, we all live with sin. We all make mistakes it is a part of life. There is only 1 person that you daughter needs to go to for correcting her sin. The pastor in my opinion is wrong. Your daughter does not need to apologize to people that are in her same situation. That is condemnation and judgment and only god and Judges can make those decisions. A pastor is a teacher not a judge.
Sorry, I had a thought when I was typing that it wasn't the correct way of putting it. I guess what I really meant (instead of the ally/enemy thing) was that I hope he understands where you are coming from. I hope he won't put on his blinders because it involves his family. Does that make sense?
I've been in a small church the size of what you are describing. Then the military moved my family out. It was hard on the church, because we were about 1/5 of the church body. That was when I was in junior high. We moved to Washington state and attended a church that probably ran around 500. Not a mega church, but at least I wasn't the only one in the youth department. It was amazing what it did for my walk with the Lord. I was insanely bored with the other church because I had no one to fellowship with that could connect with me on my level. When we moved, I met so many other kids who were my age and were good influences.
I know your daughter is almost too old for youth group, but it may be better for her if you are a part of a church that offers ministries that she feels are relevant for her. I know that numbers are not always important, but they do help sometimes.
There's only 5 people in the youth group right now. My husband wants to build it up, however...he's backing off now, since we're going to be leaving.
My daughter is too old for the youth group now, now that she has her own child, I highly doubt they would even allow her in a youth group at any church.
If we could just get that darned house to sell, we could get out of this place and not have to worry about which church we go to! I know God has a plan, but I really wish He would hurry up and help our house to sell so we can leave dodge!
I do not know if you read my post in the Mithraism thread. But I actually left a church that bold told there congregation that they do not marry boyfriend and girlfriend that live together. They also made it clear that they do not accept them in the church. I do not care who the person is. They can be the pope or a pastor, we all live with sin. We all make mistakes it is a part of life. There is only 1 person that you daughter needs to go to for correcting her sin. The pastor in my opinion is wrong. Your daughter does not need to apologize to people that are in her same situation. That is condemnation and judgment and only god and Judges can make those decisions. A pastor is a teacher not a judge.
Yes, I read your post. I know, it's sad when so many pastors and church leaders try to take the position of God.
It really gets me. The asst pastor doesn't believe in dating For the life of me, I cannot figure out how on earth he and his wife got together. How does one go from meeting to getting married without dating? Ok, so maybe my daughter started dating at too young of an age (obviously ), however, how many kids in public high school do not date? You're considered an outcast or deemed to have something wrong with you if you don't have a boyfriend in today's age.
It baffles and angers me that he would dwell so much on the negatives of the situation and not look at the positives! My gosh, she is working two jobs, doing online homeschool (trying to get her high school diploma rather than dropping out and getting a GED), AND trying to take care of a baby. She and two other people she works with, are renting a house from us. With the exception of her being on maternity leave, she pays her rent!
She is doing her BEST with what God has handed her! And, as a mother, that is all I can ask for! She could probably do a little better with having the baby a bit more often (we babysit quite a bit), but she's doing her best considering her young age. I wasn't expecting her to pull off being SUPERMOM at the age of 17. I am proud of her!
I'm not worried about him being an ally so much, it is his son...I would never ask him to take sides or anything. I just want to be able to leave peacefully and maintain our friendship and fellowship with them as friends and neighbors. I just don't want all the tears (this guy is very emotional ) and angst. We haven't even left yet, and I'm already beginning to feel like a traitor . I don't like this feeling like I am betraying them.
Our church is a dying church...in the most literal sense. There is maybe 3 families that are under the age of 60. Pretty much everyone else is way past 70's. The sad thing is, all these people are still there because of the senior pastor...when it comes down to his son taking over (when he passes) I have a feeling there will be even less of a church than there is now.
We just have to keep praying about it and ask God to take over and guide us in what he wants us to do, and where we should go.
Thanks!
Crystal
Crystal, you have my stance on the OP via the DM I sent you, so I won't repeat any of that, but I will add this to your thoughts about your dying church:
Crystal, you have my stance on the OP via the DM I sent you, so I won't repeat any of that, but I will add this to your thoughts about your dying church:
If God's in your church, nothing can kill it.
If He's not, nothing can save it.
You're right....I guess time will tell. I will continue to pray for them all and that God will work on their hearts and perhaps build the church up someday.
I just can't wait til October!
You see, the camp that we're going to...3 out of 4 of my kids were saved at this camp (the 4th is only 6 years old ). So I KNOW how effective this camp is! The camp is truly awesome!!! While I'm not holding my breath, I AM praying and hoping that God will soften the hearts of my daughter and her boyfriend. Then...after camp, providing everything goes well and they both make decisions there, we can come back and start going to a NEW church where God really IS!
Even though 3 of my kids were saved at camp NONE of them have grown spiritually...and yes, I know that is a result of the church. We should have left a LONG time ago...we're only there out of personal obligations rather than spiritual. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons OR the wrong thing for the right reasons, isn't always right...especially when it comes to our spiritual walk.
You're right....I guess time will tell. I will continue to pray for them all and that God will work on their hearts and perhaps build the church up someday.
I just can't wait til October!
You see, the camp that we're going to...3 out of 4 of my kids were saved at this camp (the 4th is only 6 years old ). So I KNOW how effective this camp is! The camp is truly awesome!!! While I'm not holding my breath, I AM praying and hoping that God will soften the hearts of my daughter and her boyfriend. Then...after camp, providing everything goes well and they both make decisions there, we can come back and start going to a NEW church where God really IS!
Even though 3 of my kids were saved at camp NONE of them have grown spiritually...and yes, I know that is a result of the church. We should have left a LONG time ago...we're only there out of personal obligations rather than spiritual. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons OR the wrong thing for the right reasons, isn't always right...especially when it comes to our spiritual walk.
As an atheist perhaps I should not pass comment but I was not always one, I had a Catholic upbringing. However God, if you really believe in him, does not require you to have others around you in a congregation for your respect for him to be manifest. God taking things literally would on the other hand expect your relationship with your family to transcend all else for this will ensure the existence of the human race and thereby a continuance of people to love God.
God also designed the human body and chronologically organised the maturation of each and every individual, so this experience you are having is with his acknowledgment and objectives. It is all perfectly natural.
Your daughter on the other hand has suffered immeasurably being raped and needs very special understanding, this surely must be your greatest challenge. This forum may not be the best place to get advice on this subject but without appropriate help women in their seventies have reported that such events early in life have affected their self worth and has not been resolved even into old age.
It has been shown that people in positions of responsibility who have a wrong of their own to conceal are the most zealous when it come to judging others.
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Now this is very interesting!!! So guess we would then know how to pray for them!
Wow, I just can't even comprehend going to a church that wouldn't accept my daughter for any reason. HOW is she supposed to find the lord when she isn't ALLOWED in the church. Did I read that right? With the things you have mentioned, I would not be taking my family to that church ever again. And I wouldn't really even think twice even if someone gave me scripture that "may" describe what your pastor is doing. I'm sorry you are going through this!
Nichole
Nobody is without sin or blameless, sure. but as the Bride of Christ we, as the church have an obligation to remain as pure as possible, and to stand out as different from the rest of the world. We had a similair situation at our church, and the girl volunteered to get in front of the church and apologize for her actions. Once we're saved, we are representatives not just of Christ, but of our church. When she dragged God's name through the mud with her actions, she also disgraced her church. A public apology is not out of the question, it just flies in the face of HUMAN LOGIC.
KAWG: Unfortunately, this type of attitude is far too prevalent in ultra-conservative, fundamentalist churches. But it has no place.
The problem here is your pastor (obviously). He has adopted the attitude of so many pastors that they somehow have dominion over people's lives and behavior. Christ came to shatter such beliefs which were prevalent in His day when church leaders created masses of rules to get into heaven that no one could conceivably abide by.
Your pastor is a nosy busybody. Your daughter owes NOBODY an apology. Your pastor and the other gossips in your church owe HER an apology for their self-righteous, judgmental behavior. Any sin she or any other person commits is between that person and God--unless, of course, another person has been harmed. I don't see how your pastor has been harmed. Sounds to me like he can't stop thinking about sex so he's projecting his guilt onto her.
Perhaps you should find a better church with real leadership??
Ok, I have to get some feedback from some other Christians here.
As a lot of you know, my 17 year old daughter now has a baby and is a single mom. Believe me, I KNOW that my daughter sinned and has made some bad choices...I think now it's more about what she does with her future choices than the past choices she has made.
I'll start with a little information, then give you the story that leads up to my question.
My husband is now the youth leader at our church. My daughter does not attend our church anymore (she doesn't go to church AT ALL right now ), and she will NEVER regularly attend our church again...There's a lot of history and bad blood that would take me forever to explain.
My husband and I have been organizing a trip to the Christian camp that our church utilizes. They have an outreach (remember and OUTREACH!) camp session in October where we will be engaging in paintball war. It should be a lot of fun (probably some pain as well ) however, there will be a couple of outreach gospel messages during our time of stay.
My husband and I have talked my daughter and her new boyfriend (have been dating about 9 months now...and are talking MARRIAGE!) into going to the camp with us. Our goal is for my daughter get right with the Lord AND for her boyfriend to make a decision for salvation as well. Our asst pastor is not happy with the fact of them attending. He feels my daughter is "living in sin" and has no business going! HELLLLLOOOOO! This is an OUTREACH!
Yesterday, my husband and I were talking to the pastor. Again the subject of them going came up. He knows he has no choice in the matter. My daughter will be driving her OWN car there...not with US and/or the youth group. They will be going on their own...however, my daughter will be staying with the girls and her boyfriend will be with the boys...they WILL NOT be sleeping together!
Ok, enough of the history...
During the course of our conversation, the pastor had to bring up the fact of my daughter's PAST relationship and getting pregnant and so on. He proceeded to tell my husband and I that she wouldn't be able to attend our church unless she made a PUBLIC APOLOGY! By this, he said that she would need to get up in front of the church and admit she was wrong and apologize for her sins....to the congregation!
Is this normal????????? Why on earth would/should she have to publicly apologize for the things she has done? She has already admitted to me and my husband that she screwed up and knows how wrong she was. Now, shouldn't God be the ONLY one that she needs to apologize to and ask forgiveness from? Why would he want to rub salt in the wounds of a 17 year old girl, that has already been through (and is going through) so much???
Is this a normal practice in other churches?
Like I said, my daughter will NEVER come back to our church...and she doesn't even know anything about this! I'm more asking for my own curiosity. I'm already very angry with him...for many reasons. Chances are, after the paintball camp, we'll probably be looking for a new church. But, in the meantime, I have to know if I am justified being angry with him for this?
No I don't think the pastor has any right to expect a public apology from your daughter.
This topic came up between myself and step-mom a few months ago. I told her I thought a confession and repentance was between the offender and God. She disagreed because that's what her pastor had told her congregation. She attends a very conservative Southern Baptist Church in a small town in Virginia.
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It was amazing what it did for my walk with the Lord. I was insanely bored with the other church because I had no one to fellowship with that could connect with me on my level. When we moved, I met so many other kids who were my age and were good influences. 
). So I KNOW how effective this camp is! The camp is truly awesome!!! While I'm not holding my breath, I AM praying and hoping that God will soften the hearts of my daughter and her boyfriend. Then...after camp, providing everything goes well and they both make decisions there, we can come back and start going to a NEW church where God really IS! 
Interesting I say I say
the purity of the church is needed.
