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Ok, I have to get some feedback from some other Christians here.
As a lot of you know, my 17 year old daughter now has a baby and is a single mom. Believe me, I KNOW that my daughter sinned and has made some bad choices...I think now it's more about what she does with her future choices than the past choices she has made.
I'll start with a little information, then give you the story that leads up to my question.
My husband is now the youth leader at our church. My daughter does not attend our church anymore (she doesn't go to church AT ALL right now ), and she will NEVER regularly attend our church again...There's a lot of history and bad blood that would take me forever to explain.
My husband and I have been organizing a trip to the Christian camp that our church utilizes. They have an outreach (remember and OUTREACH!) camp session in October where we will be engaging in paintball war. It should be a lot of fun (probably some pain as well ) however, there will be a couple of outreach gospel messages during our time of stay.
My husband and I have talked my daughter and her new boyfriend (have been dating about 9 months now...and are talking MARRIAGE!) into going to the camp with us. Our goal is for my daughter get right with the Lord AND for her boyfriend to make a decision for salvation as well. Our asst pastor is not happy with the fact of them attending. He feels my daughter is "living in sin" and has no business going! HELLLLLOOOOO! This is an OUTREACH!
Yesterday, my husband and I were talking to the pastor. Again the subject of them going came up. He knows he has no choice in the matter. My daughter will be driving her OWN car there...not with US and/or the youth group. They will be going on their own...however, my daughter will be staying with the girls and her boyfriend will be with the boys...they WILL NOT be sleeping together!
Ok, enough of the history...
During the course of our conversation, the pastor had to bring up the fact of my daughter's PAST relationship and getting pregnant and so on. He proceeded to tell my husband and I that she wouldn't be able to attend our church unless she made a PUBLIC APOLOGY! By this, he said that she would need to get up in front of the church and admit she was wrong and apologize for her sins....to the congregation!
Is this normal????????? Why on earth would/should she have to publicly apologize for the things she has done? She has already admitted to me and my husband that she screwed up and knows how wrong she was. Now, shouldn't God be the ONLY one that she needs to apologize to and ask forgiveness from? Why would he want to rub salt in the wounds of a 17 year old girl, that has already been through (and is going through) so much???
Is this a normal practice in other churches?
Like I said, my daughter will NEVER come back to our church...and she doesn't even know anything about this! I'm more asking for my own curiosity. I'm already very angry with him...for many reasons. Chances are, after the paintball camp, we'll probably be looking for a new church. But, in the meantime, I have to know if I am justified being angry with him for this?
How many people have come forward each Sunday and confessed their sins and asked for a public apology? Sounds like you have been going to this church for some time, and if this is not something you see on a regular basis, I would have to say that this pastor is passing judgement and actually trying to get a piece of 'his' justice. It has left God's hands and turned personal with the pastor in my opinion.
I'm sure there are many scriptures that could be easily found that would show him for the I don't want to say that..but you know what I mean...he is...
If this is not a normal behavior in your church, he is singling her out. Sounds like he has forgotten his place.
Ok, I have to get some feedback from some other Christians here.
As a lot of you know, my 17 year old daughter now has a baby and is a single mom. Believe me, I KNOW that my daughter sinned and has made some bad choices...I think now it's more about what she does with her future choices than the past choices she has made.
I'll start with a little information, then give you the story that leads up to my question.
My husband is now the youth leader at our church. My daughter does not attend our church anymore (she doesn't go to church AT ALL right now ), and she will NEVER regularly attend our church again...There's a lot of history and bad blood that would take me forever to explain.
My husband and I have been organizing a trip to the Christian camp that our church utilizes. They have an outreach (remember and OUTREACH!) camp session in October where we will be engaging in paintball war. It should be a lot of fun (probably some pain as well ) however, there will be a couple of outreach gospel messages during our time of stay.
My husband and I have talked my daughter and her new boyfriend (have been dating about 9 months now...and are talking MARRIAGE!) into going to the camp with us. Our goal is for my daughter get right with the Lord AND for her boyfriend to make a decision for salvation as well. Our asst pastor is not happy with the fact of them attending. He feels my daughter is "living in sin" and has no business going! HELLLLLOOOOO! This is an OUTREACH!
Yesterday, my husband and I were talking to the pastor. Again the subject of them going came up. He knows he has no choice in the matter. My daughter will be driving her OWN car there...not with US and/or the youth group. They will be going on their own...however, my daughter will be staying with the girls and her boyfriend will be with the boys...they WILL NOT be sleeping together!
Ok, enough of the history...
During the course of our conversation, the pastor had to bring up the fact of my daughter's PAST relationship and getting pregnant and so on. He proceeded to tell my husband and I that she wouldn't be able to attend our church unless she made a PUBLIC APOLOGY! By this, he said that she would need to get up in front of the church and admit she was wrong and apologize for her sins....to the congregation!
Is this normal????????? Why on earth would/should she have to publicly apologize for the things she has done? She has already admitted to me and my husband that she screwed up and knows how wrong she was. Now, shouldn't God be the ONLY one that she needs to apologize to and ask forgiveness from? Why would he want to rub salt in the wounds of a 17 year old girl, that has already been through (and is going through) so much???
Is this a normal practice in other churches?
Like I said, my daughter will NEVER come back to our church...and she doesn't even know anything about this! I'm more asking for my own curiosity. I'm already very angry with him...for many reasons. Chances are, after the paintball camp, we'll probably be looking for a new church. But, in the meantime, I have to know if I am justified being angry with him for this?
pain is a great teacher. ask any marine. ask any survivor.
brutal but you learn. if i read you accurately you wish to protect your daughter at any cost. does this work? the church is trying to set boundaries and standards. without disciple there is no learning. stick with what works.
i dont wish to sound harsh you have been thru a lot. but a lot is at stake and i want you to win, you and your family.
stephen s
san diego ca
How many people have come forward each Sunday and confessed their sins and asked for a public apology? Sounds like you have been going to this church for some time, and if this is not something you see on a regular basis, I would have to say that this pastor is passing judgement and actually trying to get a piece of 'his' justice. It has left God's hands and turned personal with the pastor in my opinion.
I'm sure there are many scriptures that could be easily found that would show him for the I don't want to say that..but you know what I mean...he is...
If this is not a normal behavior in your church, he is singling her out. Sounds like he has forgotten his place.
I have NEVER seen anyone do this in the 5+ years we have been there. Our church never grows...and far too many youths have left only to never return.
Thanks, Aiangel! I needed to hear this. I was beginning to think it was just me.
I have been holding out there as long as I can for my husband's sake. He enjoys being the youth leader. However, I can't take much more. Today we discussed all of the issues and are aiming to leave the church at the end of October or so.
I feel you're right. I think he wants public humiliation, not a public apology. If someone can come up with something scriptural/biblical that states that he is right in wanting this, I am all ears. But I honestly thought the only one she has to make things right with is GOD! Not the pastor!
pain is a great teacher. ask any marine. ask any survivor.
brutal but you learn. if i read you accurately you wish to protect your daughter at any cost. does this work? the church is trying to set boundaries and standards. without disciple there is no learning. stick with what works.
i dont wish to sound harsh you have been thru a lot. but a lot is at stake and i want you to win, you and your family.
stephen s
san diego ca
Thanks, I appreciate the input...however, does this mean you do or do not agree with this public apology? I don't see what good could possibly come from it. She's only 17. She would never do it anyway, and I would never ask her to. I want her to get right with God! But, this guy is not God. What purpose would it serve?
Kaw, I think you are justified to be angry with your pastor..I am angry with your pastor. Is this the very old one who lives next door? If it were my daughter and she doesn't want to go to the retreat, I sure wouldn't talk her into it, because the pastor may embarrass her and do a lot of harm to her self esteem. Maybe you should consider looking for another church after the paintball weekend. Who knows, maybe your daughter would be willing to be involved in finding someplace where you will all feel welcome..I just don't believe that a person has to apologize to their congregation for their sins. Your daughters "sin" did not involve the congregation, so she has nothing to apologize to them for. Her "sin" and her repentence is between her and God..
Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-16-2007 at 10:44 PM..
Reason: change content
Kaw, I think you are justified to be angry with your pastor..I am angry with your pastor. Is this the very old one who lives next door? If it were my daughter and she doesn't want to go to the retreat, I sure wouldn't talk her into it, because the pastor may embarrass her and do a lot of harm to her self esteem. Maybe you should consider looking for another church after the paintball weekend. Who knows, maybe your daughter would be willing to be involved in finding someplace where you will all feel welcome..I just don't believe that a person has to apologize to their congregation for their sins. Your daughters "sin" did not involve the congregation, so she has nothing to apologize to them for. Her "sin" and her repentence is between her and God..
No, this isn't the old pastor next door to me, I don't think he would ever actually ask/expect such a thing. However, it is his SON! The senior pastor is our next door neighbor and his son is the asst pastor. It's funny, the senior pastor is "old fashioned" and all, but not NEAR as legalistic as his son is!
It's sad though, they will experience quite a loss when we're gone. Our congregation is maybe 40-50 people on a good day...and we contribute (not just tithing) A LOT to the church. My husband had hoped to make a difference there being the youth leader, but he will never be allowed to because the asst pastor always controls everything he can and cannot do!
BTW, she and her boyfriend WANT to go! They look forward to it! She knows how he feels about them going, but she doesn't care.
Last edited by kawgpz550; 09-16-2007 at 10:50 PM..
Reason: added
It sounds to me as if the position has gone to the asst. pastors head a bit. Maybe some pride and arragonce?
Last time I checked, sin is sin, no matter what the sin is. And in order to get your daughter to come back to God, she does not need some small minded person who has his own agenda running her off from God. He needs to do some soul searching I think. And if he continues on this path, there won't be many youth in the church, heck, they will not want to come before the church with their sins, and will be put off by God or simply find a new church.
Thanks, I appreciate the input...however, does this mean you do or do not agree with this public apology? I don't see what good could possibly come from it. She's only 17. She would never do it anyway, and I would never ask her to. I want her to get right with God! But, this guy is not God. What purpose would it serve?
many many godly people come out of bullhead.
i can tell you are a good woman. but i am not telling what you want to hear.
stephen s
san diego ca
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 5,421,662 times
Reputation: 829
Remind that pastor of Jesus' words: "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."
See what his reaction is.
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), and she will NEVER regularly attend our church again...There's a lot of history and bad blood that would take me forever to explain. 
) however, there will be a couple of outreach gospel messages during our time of stay. 
Is this the very old one who lives next door? If it were my daughter and she doesn't want to go to the retreat, I sure wouldn't talk her into it, because the pastor may embarrass her and do a lot of harm to her self esteem. Maybe you should consider looking for another church after the paintball weekend. Who knows, maybe your daughter would be willing to be involved in finding someplace where you will all feel welcome
..I just don't believe that a person has to apologize to their congregation for their sins. Your daughters "sin" did not involve the congregation, so she has nothing to apologize to them for. Her "sin" and her repentence is between her and God..
