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It leads universalist to say " if you do not believe God is willing and able to accomplish His desire", it is in fact YOU who is saying God failed. Get your facts right Lee, instead of misrepresenting universalists.
My facts are dead on. You are the one making God a liar by inventing your own theology off of verses taken out of context. Than YOU twist things around and say things such as God has failed. I never said that. That is what you and others have surmised from your twisted interpretation of Scripture.
You've not only made God a liar but also a failure by your twisted doctrine.
My facts are dead on. You are the one making God a liar by inventing your own theology off of verses taken out of context. Than YOU twist things around and say things such as God has failed. I never said that. That is what you and others have surmised from your twisted interpretation of Scripture.
You've not only made God a liar but also a failure by your twisted doctrine.
Wow!
Never said God failed since I believed in UR, although before I believed in UR I ignorantly and unknowingly believed God failed instead of accomplishing His will( His Desire), which is for all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. In saying that after hearing the truth about UR I was without excuse for my ignorance.
Simple question does God desire all to be saved ? . Your answer should reveal if you actually believe God is able to accomplish his desires or He is unable too,and show who it is who believes God failed to accomplish His will( His Desire)
Never said God failed since I believed in UR, although before I believed in UR I ignorantly and unknowingly believed God failed instead of accomplishing His will( His Desire), which is for all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. In saying that after hearing the truth about UR I was without excuse for my ignorance.
Simple question does God desire all to be saved ? . Your answer should reveal if you actually believe God is able to accomplish his desires or He is unable too,and show who it is who believes God failed to accomplish His will( His Desire)
He wishes everyone is saved but by everyone's correct choice.
In accordance to your theory, the gospel shall say, "you don't need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, you are saved anyway".
UR is an anti-Christ doctrine such that those who believe in such a doctrine will inevitably contradict the content of the Covenant signed. God respects that covenant or else that's His failure to even signed a covenant. He thus saves only in accordance to what is signed by the covenant, it's not unconditional as UR tries to portray.
Of course, if you would like to bet with your life so be it. God is mercy enough that those Christians not believing in UR don't need to bet with their lives like you do. Good luck.
He wishes everyone is saved but by everyone's correct choice.
In accordance to your theory, the gospel shall say, "you don't need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, you are saved anyway".
UR is an anti-Christ doctrine such that those who believe in such a doctrine will inevitably contradict the content of the Covenant signed. God respects that covenant or else that's His failure to even signed a covenant. He thus saves only in accordance to what is signed by the covenant, it's not unconditional as UR tries to portrait.
Of course, if you would like to bet with your life so be it. God is mercy enough that those Christians not believing in UR don't need to bet with their lives like you do. Good luck.
Jesus Christ made the correct choice for us.
Salvation is Today not the future. Being saved is not about avoiding hell to go to heaven.
Jesus Christ came that we might have LIFE and LIFE more abundantly in the here and now, that is the testimony of those who believe He's the Rock of their Salvation.
Heaven and Hell Christianity as no substance, it is lip service at best and a form of godliness that denies the power . what power ? .... The ability of God to restore man back to Himself
He wishes everyone is saved but by everyone's correct choice.
In accordance to your theory, the gospel shall say, "you don't need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, you are saved anyway".
UR is an anti-Christ doctrine such that those who believe in such a doctrine will inevitably contradict the content of the Covenant signed. God respects that covenant or else that's His failure to even signed a covenant. He thus saves only in accordance to what is signed by the covenant, it's not unconditional as UR tries to portrait.
Of course, if you would like to bet with your life so be it. God is mercy enough that those Christians not believing in UR don't need to bet with their lives like you do. Good luck.
Jesus Christ made the correct choice for us. ( I know you die hard Fundies, hate the thought it was all God)
Salvation is Today not the future. Being saved is not about avoiding hell to go to heaven.
Jesus Christ came that we might have LIFE and LIFE more abundantly in the here and now, that is the testimony of those who believe He's the Rock of their Salvation.
Heaven and Hell Christianity as no substance, it is lip service at best and a form of godliness that denies the power . what power ? .... The ability of God to restore man back to Himself
Just to add. God does not wish He desires and His desires are His will and His Will is always done.
To be honest,
I really don't know why ETers believe in Jesus Christ. After all, just the belief in God is what is sufficient, so I don't see what's "special" about Jesus Christ for an ETer...
It's as though their message is, "Jesus Christ did this and this and this.... but unless YOU do something about it, it's useless.."
To be honest,
I really don't know why ETers believe in Jesus Christ. After all, just the belief in God is what is sufficient, so I don't see what's "special" about Jesus Christ for an ETer...
It's as though their message is, "Jesus Christ did this and this and this.... but unless YOU do something about it, it's useless.."
Maybe someone can clarify things for me..
Blessings,
brian
Adding a required choice to Jesus' sacrifice waters down the gospel. If we need faith, belief, good works, baptism, whatever the case may be that someone believes is required, then really, why did Jesus die? We could have the same guidelines and be saved without His sacrifice. Understanding UR means understanding that His sacrifice meant everything and had a huge, magnicent purpose! Jesus died to save the world, not in hopes that some people would acquire the correct understanding to make a wise choice.
To be honest,
I really don't know why ETers believe in Jesus Christ. After all, just the belief in God is what is sufficient, so I don't see what's "special" about Jesus Christ for an ETer...
It's as though their message is, "Jesus Christ did this and this and this.... but unless YOU do something about it, it's useless.."
Maybe someone can clarify things for me..
Blessings,
brian
For the evangelical ET'er, Jesus is nothing more than an escape clause from hell and a free ride to heaven, and they created the false doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved to ease their consciences that have not been cleansed from the guilt that their beliefs keep them under.
Adding a required choice to Jesus' sacrifice waters down the gospel. If we need faith, belief, good works, baptism, whatever the case may be that someone believes is required, then really, why did Jesus die? We could have the same guidelines and be saved without His sacrifice. Understanding UR means understanding that His sacrifice meant everything and had a huge, magnicent purpose! Jesus died to save the world, not in hopes that some people would acquire the correct understanding to make a wise choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
For the evangelical ET'er, Jesus is nothing more than an escape clause from hell and a free ride to heaven, and they created the false doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved to ease their consciences that have not been cleansed from the guilt that their beliefs keep them under.
As I see things, aside from whether or not all mankind will be saved in the end, there are 2 main differences between those who believe in the doctrine of ET, and those who believe in the salvation of all mankind:
1) whether or not God's forgiveness and mercy will eventually end
2) whether Jesus' death and resurrection depends on man's choice in order to be effective.
--So for ETers, Jesus sacrifice is worthless unless man does something about it; and God's forgiveness and mercy ends at death.
Blessings,
brian
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