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God seeks a 'love-based' relationship ... which cannot simply be 'imposed' and still be love.
Agreed, love can't be forced.
God: Announcement to all creation! Listen up! You are totally free to love Me. I gave you free will to love Me. You can freely chose between loving Me and unending torture. PS I love you.
God: Hummm, sorry I forgot to mention I'll only accept the 2% elect I've randomly chosen before I even started creation. Love ya all!
By their acceptance of universal salvation, they are saying there is another way.
Universalism says ALL will be saved no matter what their belief is about God. They don't even have to believe in Him, yet they will be saved. Jesus says no one comes to the Father, except by Him.
If you insist that this happens in the afterlife, then prove it with scripture.
If you insist salvation ends at death, prove it.
------------------------------------------
Hebrews 9: 27 And inasmuch as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, judgment,
---> The classic verse to prove there is no chance for salvation after death.
Romans 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
---> Maybe they make fake confessions to escape hell?
------> That can only be true if the Holy Spirit inspires lies and fake confessions....
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed, and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, except by Holy Spirit.
---> That's very clear; all who kneel do so because the Holy Spirit dwells within them. So the kneeling is a genuine confession...
---> Note that this is also the case before death.
---> But maybe it's to late anyway?
Romans 10:9 that if thou will confess with thy mouth, Lord Jesus, and will believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou will be saved.
---> Short recap: Everyone will make a true confession and at that point they will be saved. Obviously mrs muslim and mr. satanist never confesed in this life. Yet they are part of "everyone".
---> Ergo salvation after death is a Holy Spirit enforced fact for those groups.
---> Finally all the above are unconditional statements. But if there is still doubt.... Isaiah 45: 23 By myself I have sworn, the word has gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue will confess to God
Hmmm, we use the lens of the Holy Spirit, who was given to us when we repented and turned to follow Christ, and receiving his blood-covering of our sins.
That's totally unBiblical.
You turn salvation into a thing of yourself.
YOU repentented and because of that you recieved His blood-covering*.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
See not your works but the works of God.
Faith is the tool to get saved. That tool is given by God.
Saul/Paul recieved that faith the hard way on the road to Damascus. He didn't seek faith in Jesus. The opposite; he was killing those that believed in Christ.
*=Blood-covering shows you need to study the Bible a little more.
Animal sacrifices gave blood covering.
Jesus' blood wash(ed) our sins.
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
===> God gives full control to Jesus
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
===> The task of Jesus is to give eternal life to all things (=mankind) John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
===> And Jesus accomplishes His task
Trust?
It's the UR people that have trust in the capabilities of Jesus.
It's the ET cult that believes God gave all things in Jesus' hands; desired to save everyone; even send His Son to teach mankind and make them find the the narrow gate; but satan doesn't like that, so he starts decieving. God desires 100% to be saved. Satan desires 100% to be lost. The ultimate result?
God/Jesus saved 2%, Satan doomed 98%.
So who do you trust.....
No Finn, you have failed to understand the gospel.
The gospel is that all people will be blessed through Christ.
The promise God made to Abraham will be kept.
All people will be blessed when they all turn back to God and accept Him and confess to Him and worship Him.
Behold, I bring you the truely Good News (Gospel) 98% shall be tortured in hell for ever.
I think we all agree crucifying Jesus is one of the most severe ways of rejecting Him. But still He said: "Father forgive them".
So those that litterally killed Him were forgiven but billions of other people that somehow don't believe in Jesus (muslims, atheist) are tortured for ever.
How does that fit in with "God is no repector of persons"?
The good news: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
If you insist salvation ends at death, prove it.
------------------------------------------
Hebrews 9: 27 And inasmuch as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, judgment,
---> The classic verse to prove there is no chance for salvation after death.
Romans 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
---> Maybe they make fake confessions to escape hell?
------> That can only be true if the Holy Spirit inspires lies and fake confessions....
When you read whole chapters, as opposed to single verses., the message comes together and you will see the connection between the above two verses:
Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God
Heb 9:27 declares that you die and then you are judged, and Romans 14 and talks about the very judgment. It is at the judgment seat where the sinners knees will bend, much like in the courtroom where the accused will stand to hear his sentence.
Revelation, and Matthew etc wraps up the result of the judgment: But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-01-2012 at 06:03 AM..
I think we all agree crucifying Jesus is one of the most severe ways of rejecting Him. But still He said: "Father forgive them".
So those that litterally killed Him were forgiven but billions of other people that somehow don't believe in Jesus (muslims, atheist) are tortured for ever.
How does that fit in with "God is no repector of persons"?
He said that because He believed and knew He truly was the Savior of All.
The argument from the fundamentalist could be that Jesus asked God to forgive them,which is easy to believe if you believe in the trinity god.
God: Announcement to all creation! Listen up! You are totally free to love Me. I gave you free will to love Me. You can freely chose between loving Me and unending torture. PS I love you.
God: Hummm, sorry I forgot to mention I'll only accept the 2% elect I've randomly chosen before I even started creation. Love ya all!
You've got the election thing wrong. God doesn't do the choosing. He draws us to Him through His word, but then it is up to us to choose to follow Him or not.
I agree that it will be a small percentage though. The scripture says, "few there be that find it."
Katie
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. Love believes all things .
