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Old 05-03-2012, 12:01 AM
 
697 posts, read 1,068,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I was going to watch American Idol tonight. Should I be scared?
No, just embarrassed!
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Leave the apples out of apple pie and it turns out to be something else.
Indeed. I see a lot of effort put into replacing the truth with something else.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:00 AM
 
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Quote:
ShanaBrown;24132166]Katie, when I was in the coC this was a main emphasis, to teach, evangelize so that people would not go to eternal hell. It seems that this message would be screaming from the rooftops even from heaven itself if someone believed it to be true, imo. I know that there were many nights that I was unable to sleep when I realized what this teaching held by mainstream Christianity really meant.
I don't know what kind of church of Christ you went to. There are a variety, including the Boston movement, and International churches of Christ. I am not part of either of those.

No church of Christ I've ever been to focuses their message on hell. They focus on the opposite. Heaven! We want to win as many over to Christ as we can so they too can enjoy the wonderful promise God has given us. Fear is never used to win souls to Jesus. If a church constantly preached about hell, they wouldn't stay in business long. No one wants to hear negative, negative, negative week after week.

Where I go, it's barely mentioned, unless it comes up in scripture. Everyone knows the alternative to heaven is eternal hell. But it is never the focus of a sermon. It doesn't need to be. Sorry if you think that's wrong, but I am perfectly happy being a part of the church of Christ. I know I am saved, and where I am going once I die. Meanwhile, I'm doing the best I can to bring as many with me as possible.

I'm sorry you had that kind of experience with a church of Christ. All I can say is that they are not all that way, at least not the ones I've come in contact with.

Quote:
God who is perfect love, loves us, all of us. Adam would have heard about it, the Israelites, God's chosen people would have heard about it, every human being would have heard about it from day one. It would be screaming from the heavens.
I started to answer this section, and then realized there was so much to write about that I would start a new thread.

Quote:
And was I shocked to realized that the many if not the majority in the early church didnot hold to this teaching. I also understand that the great proponent of this teaching, did not like to study the original languages of the scriptures.
You are so wrong about this. I posted either in this thread or another UR thread so many quotes from the ECF's. Origen was in the minority about his beliefs, not the majority.

As for original languages Shana, do you have a degree in Hebrew and Greek? I ask you this with all due respect. I am not being sarcastic. I'd really like to know if you do. I notice you cite the meanings of particular Greek and Hebrew words quite often. Does this stem from your own personal expertise in the languages, or are you just sharing what you are reading from others who claim to be experts?

This seems to be the heart of the problem. You take words like "all" and make it inclusive of everyone and everything when it suits your purpose. The rest of the time, you apply it differently. All doesn't necessarily always mean all. You have to look at context. You have to look for qualifiers.

You also have your own meaning for the word "eternal." You say it doesn't mean forever, yet God is eternal, and I know He is forever.

So you see, Shana, we really don't have common ground. As soon as you start giving me your Hebrew and Greek interpretations of the Bible, we are on a different playing field.

Eternal is forever. It never ends. That is what the Bible says, and I don't try to second guess interpretation. I just take it for what it says.

Quote:
God = love , not eternal hatred
I really don't think that people just stop and listen to what this teaching of eternal suffering is saying. Jesus never taught it. Jesus experienced death, not an eternal hell.
Yes, God is love, but He is also justice. He is eternal, and so is hell. That's what His word says, and that's good enough for me.

Jesus did teach eternal hell if you read the Bible exactly the way it reads and not try to reinterpret it by giving words like all and eternal your own interpretation.

I like you Shana, and many of the UR'ers on the forum. I feel like I have made friends with many of you. But this is a topic I am very weary of. If it makes you happy to not believe in eternal hell, then who am I to tell you differently.

Time to move on.

Thank you for being respectful as always. I hope you feel I have shown you the same respect. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Love Ya,

Katie
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
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Quote:
I don't know what kind of church of Christ you went to. There are a variety, including the Boston movement, and International churches of Christ. I am not part of either of those.

No church of Christ I've ever been to focuses their message on hell. They focus on the opposite. Heaven! We want to win as many over to Christ as we can so they too can enjoy the wonderful promise God has given us. Fear is never used to win souls to Jesus. If a church constantly preached about hell, they wouldn't stay in business long. No one wants to hear negative, negative, negative week after week.
Hi Katie, I have attended many churches of Christ, not just those who had campus ministries and the message has been the same. It was the same in the Baptist church that I grew up in.

Quote:
Where I go, it's barely mentioned, unless it comes up in scripture. Everyone knows the alternative to heaven is eternal hell. But it is never the focus of a sermon. It doesn't need to be. Sorry if you think that's wrong, but I am perfectly happy being a part of the church of Christ. I know I am saved, and where I am going once I die. Meanwhile, I'm doing the best I can to bring as many with me as possible.

I'm sorry you had that kind of experience with a church of Christ. All I can say is that they are not all that way, at least not the ones I've come in contact with.



Quote:
Quote:
God who is perfect love, loves us, all of us. Adam would have heard about it, the Israelites, God's chosen people would have heard about it, every human being would have heard about it from day one. It would be screaming from the heavens.
I started to answer this section, and then realized there was so much to write about that I would start a new thread.


Quote:
And was I shocked to realized that the many if not the majority in the early church didnot hold to this teaching. I also understand that the great proponent of this teaching, did not like to study the original languages of the scriptures.
You are so wrong about this. I posted either in this thread or another UR thread so many quotes from the ECF's. Origen was in the minority about his beliefs, not the majority.


Origen was not the only person in the early church who believed in the early church. Many teachers in the early teach held to the teaching, even some who preached eternal hell to the masses of people. This is a part of history.


Quote:
As for original languages Shana, do you have a degree in Hebrew and Greek? I ask you this with all due respect. I am not being sarcastic. I'd really like to know if you do. I notice you cite the meanings of particular Greek and Hebrew words quite often. Does this stem from your own personal expertise in the languages, or are you just sharing what you are reading from others who claim to be experts?
Hi Katie, I will ask the same of you. Do you have a degree in Hebrew and Greek and I ask you with all due respect. How do you know that words that have been translated in some translations mean "eternal" or "everlasting"?

Quote:
This seems to be the heart of the problem. You take words like "all" and make it inclusive of everyone and everything when it suits your purpose. The rest of the time, you apply it differently. All doesn't necessarily always mean all. You have to look at context. You have to look for qualifiers

Can you give examples of when I have done this, Katie?


Quote:
You also have your own meaning for the word "eternal." You say it doesn't mean forever, yet God is eternal, and I know He is forever.


Yes, God is eternal. I never said that He isn't eternal, Katie. I don't have my own meaning for eternal. Many Biblical scholars who are knowledgeable of the Greek and Hebrew, understand that some words that have been translated as "eternal" do not mean eternal, and aionios is one of them.



Quote:
So you see, Shana, we really don't have common ground. As soon as you start giving me your Hebrew and Greek interpretations of the Bible, we are on a different playing field.
I am sharing, just as you share, Katie and the common ground is, I hope, that we both seek the truth of God's word. Understanding the original meaning some of the words which have affected church doctrine is very important to me. Many Christians (not just me) believe that eternal hell is a false teaching, based on study. And if there is one thing I learned from being a member of the coC, is that study of the scriptures is very important.

Quote:
Eternal is forever. It never ends. That is what the Bible says, and I don't try to second guess interpretation. I just take it for what it says.
Where does it say this, Katie and does it depend on the translation? Do you believe that the Bible that you read is a translation or not?
Quote:
God = love , not eternal hatred
I really don't think that people just stop and listen to what this teaching of eternal suffering is saying. Jesus never taught it. Jesus experienced death, not an eternal hell.


Quote:
Yes, God is love, but He is also justice. He is eternal, and so is hell. That's what His word says, and that's good enough for me.
Yes, God is love and God is just. He is eternal but hell is not. God has no beginning and no end. If someone believes that hell is eternal, then it must have always existed, having no beginning and no end, just like God. Just because you believe that the scriptures teach an eternal hell, does not make it true. Many Christians do not believe the same way that you do, on this subject. Some translations may teach it and others don't. I want to know what the truth is, don't you?




Quote:
Jesus did teach eternal hell if you read the Bible exactly the way it reads and not try to reinterpret it by giving words like all and eternal your own interpretation.

As I shared, I want the truth, and it is very clear that many translations have errors and have translated many words incorrectly which has contributed to the false teaching of an eternal hell. The words that Jesus spoke were not English.

Quote:
I like you Shana, and many of the UR'ers on the forum. I feel like I have made friends with many of you. But this is a topic I am very weary of. If it makes you happy to not believe in eternal hell, then who am I to tell you differently.
It's all about truth, Katie.


Quote:
Time to move on.

Thank you for being respectful as always. I hope you feel I have shown you the same respect. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Love Ya,

Katie
Well, thank you and God bless you, Katie. Peace

By the way, the passages of scriptures that I shared do not even mention the words, eternal, or eternity



Romans 8:18-24
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

*hope=epis=expectation




1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Then comes the end, when (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For "He has put all things under His feet."But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him (The Father) is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to (Jesus), then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.


Ephesians 1:7 In [g]Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He [h]lavished on [i]us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He [j]made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His [k]kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration [l]suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the **summing up of all things in Christ, things [m]in the heavens and things on the earth. (NAS)

__________________

Eph. 13Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
5having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved,
7in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the remission of the trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
8in which He did abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself, 10in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in Him (YLT)



**summing up = anakephalaioomai= to gather together again in one, to reunite under one head (mid. voice as in Ephesians 1, Key Word Study Bible



It is very clear that the goal of God is to reunite all things in Christ, all things in heaven and all things on earth.

Those who are the body of Christ are already in Him. The body does not need to be reunited. But everyone else does need to be reunited in Him.


Colossians 1


16because in Him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens...

God bless and peace.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-03-2012 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:28 PM
 
467 posts, read 465,117 times
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ShanaBrown Jesus destroyed death on the cross!
"Death is NO MORE!"

The man on earth wants to live forever, feeding his every desire, but the reverse will be true in Gehenna!
In Gehenna; This same man, will try all means to kill himself, to end his suffering, all his efforts will only increase his suffering!
The Man in Gehenna will "Curse Jesus" it will be Jesus' fault that he can't die. He will blame Jesus for his predicament! Never thinking, it was his own fault in the first place that got him into Gehenna!

Finally he will think: "I will enter the burning Lake, surely the Lake of Fire will end my suffering!"
ShanaBrown He will willing step into the Lake, no one will push him in.. He will not die.. He will "Meld", he will become one with Satan and his demons! A white hot ball of burning hate in the middle of the lake!

Thinking death and Gehenna will end, (be no more).. Is thinking: "Satan still rules" that Jesus failed!

ShanaBrown There is NO DEATH so all men will live forever... FOREVER never dyeing!!!
The question is NOT will they die.. Because they won't die.. The question is; Where will they be FOREVER!!
Up in Heaven or down in Gehenna!?

QUESTION: If there is NO "Lake of Fire"; Where will Satan and his Demons end up???!

Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, â€Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

QUESTION: Is Matthew 25:34 a LIE!? (above)

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, â€Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

QUESTION: Is Matthew 25:41 a LIE!? (above)

From Matthew 25 (above) If one person goes up and one goes DOWN then there must be a "DOWN", a place they end up DOWN there!!

ShanaBrown Christians believe ALL the scriptures!!! It is just this simple!

Accepting Matthew 25:34 and rejecting Matthew 25:41 means the person is NOT CHRISTIAN!

I made the QUESTIONS in lime green so you would see them!
Please reply

Dogknox
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
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Quote:
ShanaBrown Jesus destroyed death on the cross!
"Death is NO MORE!"

Hi, Dogknox, I agree.

Quote:
The man on earth wants to live forever, feeding his every desire, but the reverse will be true in Gehenna!
In Gehenna; This same man, will try all means to kill himself, to end his suffering, all his efforts will only increase his suffering!
The Man in Gehenna will "Curse Jesus" it will be Jesus' fault that he can't die. He will blame Jesus for his predicament! Never thinking, it was his own fault in the first place that got him into Gehenna!

Finally he will think: "I will enter the burning Lake, surely the Lake of Fire will end my suffering!"
ShanaBrown He will willing step into the Lake, no one will push him in.. He will not die.. He will "Meld", he will become one with Satan and his demons! A white hot ball of burning hate in the middle of the lake!
Thank you for sharing your views on Gehenna and the Lake of Fire. We don't have the same understanding of this. I believe that all of the judgments of God have a higher purpose leading to the eventual subjection and restoration of all to Him. I believe that this is supported in the scriptures.


Quote:
Quote:
Thinking death and Gehenna will end, (be no more).. Is thinking: "Satan still rules" that Jesus failed!

ShanaBrown There is NO DEATH so all men will live forever... FOREVER never dyeing!!!
The question is NOT will they die.. Because they won't die.. The question is; Where will they be FOREVER!!
Up in Heaven or down in Gehenna!?

QUESTION: If there is NO "Lake of Fire"; Where will Satan and his Demons end up???!

Again, the scriptures teach that it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. Please see Colossians 1.


Quote:
Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

QUESTION
Quote:
Is Matthew 25:34 a LIE!? (above)
No, it is not a lie.

Quote:
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.




Quote:
QUESTION: Is Matthew 25:41 a LIE!? (above)
Quote:

The fire is aionion and not eternal. Aionion or aionios meaning, "of or relating to an age"


Quote:

From Matthew 25 (above) If one person goes up and one goes DOWN then there must be a "DOWN", a place they end up DOWN there!!

ShanaBrown Christians believe ALL the scriptures!!! It is just this simple!

I agree.

Quote:
Accepting Matthew 25:34 and rejecting Matthew 25:41 means the person is NOT CHRISTIAN!

I made the QUESTIONS in lime green so you would see them!
Please reply
Dogknox
I don't reject them either. We have a different understanding of them, based on the meaning of some of the words and other scriptures. God bless and peace.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:01 PM
 
467 posts, read 465,117 times
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ShanaBrown Funny how; You are the only one who is right when all these "Scripture Scholars" and their translations can be so wrong??!
ShanaBrown You must admit... Your argument is with the Jesus and his WORDS!!!
Revelation 20:10
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also were. There painful suffering will be inflicted upon them day and night, forever and always.

As mentioned before "CHRISTIANS Believe the scriptures.. ALL The Scriptures!!

ShanaBrown Believing all the scriptures means, Matthew 25:41 inclusive!

ShanaBrown You can't prove you are christian, can you!!!??
I am CHRISTIAN I am NOT SDA!!

Matthew 25:41
New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:41
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘ Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Matthew 25:41
King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:41
Amplified Bible (AMP)
41Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

Matthew 25:41
Common English Bible (CEB)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:41
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:41
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
41 “Then the king will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels!

Matthew 25:41
Good News Translation (GNT)
41 Then he will say to those on his left,
Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!

Matthew 25:41
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
41-43 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Out of my presence, cursed as you are, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was lonely and you never made me welcome. When I was naked you did nothing to clothe me; when I was sick and in prison you never cared about me.’

Matthew 25:41
Lexham English Bible (LEB)
41 Then he will also say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

Matthew 25:41
New Century Version (NCV)
41 "Then the King will say to those on his left, 'Go away from me. You will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever that was prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:41
New Life Version (NLV)
41 “Then the King will say to those on His left side, ‘Go away from Me! You are guilty! Go into the fire that lasts forever. It has been made ready for the devil and his angels.

etc
etc
etc
etc

Last edited by Dogknox; 05-03-2012 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: NC
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Hi Dogknox,

Here are a few more translations. I have no argument with Jesus and His words. I am sharing my belief which is based on the scriptures. Take care and God bless.

King James Version, 1611 spelled as in the original
1. And these shall goe away into euerlasting punishment : but the righteous into life eternall.2. And the deuil that deceiued them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night, for euer and euer.
This version had thousands of differences in two printings within the same year.

The Newberry Reference Bible, 1893
1. And these shall_go_away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.2. And the devil that deceived them was_cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false_prophet are, and shall_be_tormented day and night forever and ever.
margin: the ages of the ages.

Revised Version, 1881
1. And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.2. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night* for ever and ever.
*Greek. unto the ages of the ages.
."
American Standard Version
1. And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.2. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.*
*Greek. unto the ages of the ages.


Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition (Greek\English Interlinear)
1. And these shall go forth to the aionian 1cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life.2. And THAT ENEMY who deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and Sulphur, where both the BEAST and FALSE-PROPHET [were cast,] and they will be tormented Day and Night for the AGES of the AGES.

The New Covenant, 1884
1. And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.2. And the accuser that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the beast and [the] false prophet [are], and they shall be tormented day and night to the aeons of the aeons.
Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898
1. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.2. and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages.

The Holy Bible In Modern English (Fenton), 1903
1. And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life. 2. And the Devil who deceived them was hurled into the lake of Divine fire, where also were the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tortured day and night through the ages of the ages.

New Testament in Modern Speech, 1910
1. And these shall go away into the Punishment 1of the Ages, but the righteous into the Life* of the Ages.2. and the Devil,** who had been leading them astray, was thrown into 3the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.
*Of the Ages] Greek 'aeonian.'

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, 1976
1. And these shall go away into age-abiding *correction, but the righteous into **age-abiding life.2. And the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where were both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages.


The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958
1. And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.2. And the accuser, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where both the wild beast and the false prophet were cast; and they will be tormented day and night for the ages of the ages.
Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
1. And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.2. And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
1. And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.2. ...and the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: NC
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Many words that have been translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, incurable, and so on, do not mean this.


Examples:


Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
16:53-55).

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).


An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).

"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).

Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.


Hell cannot be eternal if God is to reunite all in Jesus Christ eventually. I am sorry if you cannot accept this.


God bless and peace.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-03-2012 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:23 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
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Isaiah 25:
6 The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7 And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.
9 And it will be said in that day,
“Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the LORD for whom we have waited; (NAS)
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