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Old 05-04-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,814,161 times
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The soul is the life force. It is not eternal. It is a mortal soul. To lose your soul is to lose your life..and die.

HOLY SPIRIT is another matter-It is the mind and spirit of God..it is eternal. To allow the holy spirit to reside in you sustains you forever. It's kind of like a good parasite that keeps you healthy and strong- here and in the here---------after..The spirit of Jesus Christ has survived for over 2000 years by residing in those that accept his holy spirit.

This spirit is what has kept Jesus going all this time- as long as he lives in but one heart- He and you live forever. It is the new contract.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:30 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As is plainly stated in verse 7, it is because of the revelations that were given to Paul concerning heaven that he was given a thorn in his side to prevent him from becoming arrogant.
You are misreading that...
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No it does not depict the reality of hades...It is a Parable of Israel and the Gentile Nations...did you hear me?...It is a P-A-R-A-B-L-E...Parable...At the end of the PARABLE there is no solution to the situation of the Rich Man for escaping this fate, in fact, he is told by Abraham, regarding his five brothers, that they have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them...So, it cannot be speaking of Hell and Heaven...And you state that Paradise is in the third Heaven...Where is this stated?...
A parable is a story. Jesus' story was about the Pharisees as symbolized by the rich man and their unbelief and the consequences of thier unbelief.

If you want to use the argument that Hades isn't real because it was mentioned in a parable then by that reasoning you may as well say that the kingdom of God isn't real either because it was mentioned in parables.

Hades is not 'hell'. 'Hell' is a reference to the lake of fire. Paradise before Jesus resurrected and ascended was one of the compartments of Hades, not heaven. Since the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, Paradise is now in heaven.

The mention of Moses and the Prophets refers to the Scriptures.

I have shown several times now on this thread that 2 Cor 12:1-4 states that Paradise is in the third heaven (since the time of Jesus' resurrection and ascension). If you did not refuse to read my posts you would have known that.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,657,614 times
Reputation: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, you are stating that Yeshua did not really suffer anything but death on the Cross for the Sins of mankind...But, was kickin' it back for three days in Paradise?...However, the non-believer must pay for his Sins for eternity?...Yeshua compars wat He must endure to Jonah, do you think that being in the belly of a whale for three days was Paradise?...Or horror?...I have no idea where you get your theology from, but it certainyl is not from logic and reason or the Bible....
...and again...a straight up Amen.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:47 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You are misreading that...
Regarding verse 7.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Through the abundance of the revelations - By my being raised thus to heaven, and by being permitted to behold the wonders of the heavenly world, as well as by the numerous communications which God had made to me at other times.
2 Corinthians 12:7 Bible Commentary


Regarding the fact that Paul was speaking of himself.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
The reason why Paul did not speak of this directly as a vision which he had himself seen was probably that he was accused of boasting, and he had admitted that it did not become him to glory. But though it did not become him to boast directly, yet he could tell them of a man concerning whom there would be no impropriety evidently in boasting. It is not uncommon, moreover, for a man to speak of himself in the third person.
2 Corinthians 12:2 Bible Commentary

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
I knew a man in Christ about fourteen years ago,.... Which is to be understood of himself, as appears from 2 Corinthians 12:7, where he speaks in the first person; and the reason why he here speaks in the third, is to show his modesty and humility, and how much he declined vain glory and popular applause; and whilst he is speaking of himself, studies as it were to conceal himself from being the person designed, and to draw off the mind of the reader from him to another person; though another cannot be intended, for it would not have been to his purpose, yea, quite beside it, when he proposes to come to visions and revelations he had of the Lord, to have instanced in the rapture of another.
2 Corinthians 12:2 Bible Commentary

These are but a two different sources which speak to the fact that Paul was talking about himself. I could provide others but you would simply ignore them as well.

Even if Paul was referring to someone else which he wasn't, that wouldn't help your argument in any way.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
The soul is the life force. It is not eternal. It is a mortal soul. To lose your soul is to lose your life..and die.

HOLY SPIRIT is another matter-It is the mind and spirit of God..it is eternal. To allow the holy spirit to reside in you sustains you forever. It's kind of like a good parasite that keeps you healthy and strong- here and in the here---------after..The spirit of Jesus Christ has survived for over 2000 years by residing in those that accept his holy spirit.

This spirit is what has kept Jesus going all this time- as long as he lives in but one heart- He and you live forever. It is the new contract.
The soul is that immaterial part of man which animates the body. It (the soul) is immortal as has been shown throughout this thread.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:56 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No you haven't...
Yes, I have. I have been patient with you, but you are simply arguing and ranting without any regard or concern for the truth. You refuse to be honest even with yourself. You've admitted that you aren't even willing to read through all my posts on this thread. You are only wasting my time and that ends now.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,344,506 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As is plainly stated in verse 7, it is because of the revelations that were given to Paul concerning heaven that he was given a thorn in his side to prevent him from becoming arrogant.
The Revelation of John, prior to his writing could have caused Paul to become arrogant or haughty.
If he were to boast of it himself.
"Pride goes before destruction; and a haughty spirit before stumbling."
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,344,506 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The reason why Paul did not speak of this directly as a vision which he had himself seen was probably that he was accused of boasting, and he had admitted that it did not become him to glory. But though it did not become him to boast directly, yet he could tell them of a man concerning whom there would be no impropriety evidently in boasting. It is not uncommon, moreover, for a man to speak of himself in the third person.
This bull is the pride of the herd; and would have made him a liar.
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
A parable is a story. Jesus' story was about the Pharisees as symbolized by the rich man and their unbelief and the consequences of thier unbelief.
The wearing of Purple and Linen are symbolic of the Priesthood...Purple symbolizes Royalty and the Linen symbolizes the Priesthood...Exodus 28 describes these garments...


The Pharisees were not Priest but a political party...Just as were the Zealots, Sadducees, etc....

Exo_19:6 And you shall become a kingdom of priests for Me, a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the sons of Israel.

Where in the Parable does it state anything regarding the Rich Man's unbelief or Lazarus' belief?...
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