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Old 04-26-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,522 posts, read 10,957,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Thanks Finn. And yes, Stephen knew he was going to heaven.

Acts 7:59 'They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

And if you will notice that Acts 7:55 says that Jesus was standing at the right hand of God. Normally Jesus is seated (Psa 110:1; Col 3:1; Heb 1:3, 13, 8:1; 10:12; 12:2). But that Jesus was standing may mean that Jesus was standing to welcome Stephen to heaven.
Could be....imagine that Jesus might stand to welcome His followers to heaven...
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Ecclesiastes 12:7 describes death in these terms: "and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." Notice, that according to this definition, the body has one destination and the soul/spirit has another.

There is additional evidence that the soul leaves the body at death. Several of the resurrection stories in the Bible describe the soul as returning to the body. This implies, of course, that the soul had left in the first place. First, there is the example of Elijah raising the widow’s son from the dead. "And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived” (1 Kings 17:21-22). This passage specifically says that the child’s soul "came into him again." A second example is Jesus’ raising of Jairus’s twelve year old daughter from the dead. "And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. But taking her by the hand he called, saying, "Child, arise." And her spirit returned, and she got up at once (Luke 8:53-55). As in the example, this text also speaks of the soul of a dead person “returning” into the body.
Yes. Numerous passages show that at physical death the soul simply goes out from the body. And if God permits, it can come back in.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:30 PM
 
3,479 posts, read 1,439,488 times
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Good post Mike!

I have a tough time grasping this concept. I have it a little better understood, but still some issues.

The Scripture does say we after physical death are either in Heaven or Sheol/Hades (Luke 16 the guy lifting up his eyes).

It also talks about resurrection, so as many have come to the conclusion that the soul/spirit (I'm not real sure of the distinction) goes back into the body for resurrection for Judgment.

Matthew 27

50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Many scholars look at this emptying as the emptying of "Abraham's Bosom) (Luke 16)<compartment of Sheol>. The only issue I see with that is that this happen at the Lord's crucifixion not resurrection. Thus the Lord being in Sheol (the belly of the earth) for three days and three nights. He must have not been preaching to these folks.

Another spectacular resurrection passage.

Isaiah 26

19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This seems to point to either this event or possibly a rapture, or the resurrection of the living in general. Here is the context however..

20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.


The reference seems to be the Day of the LORD. Rapture?

John 14

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


1 Thessalonians 4:18
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:34 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 820,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Quote:
Thanks Finn. And yes, Stephen knew he was going to heaven.

Acts 7:59 'They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

And if you will notice that Acts 7:55 says that Jesus was standing at the right hand of God. Normally Jesus is seated (Psa 110:1; Col 3:1; Heb 1:3, 13, 8:1; 10:12; 12:2). But that Jesus was standing may mean that Jesus was standing to welcome Stephen to heaven.
Mike the way you proof text passages is just amazing. First Stephen said, "receive my SPIRIT."

What was his spirit? It was pneuma that which is imparted to man, making him a living pusche i.e a living soul.

How many times do you need to be reminded that when God breathed into Adam the breath [spirit] of life Adam became a LIVING SOUL?

Now the word soul means a living creature, but it also means: a person, he/she, me, myself and life.

So in 1 Kings it was the soul i.e the life of the child that returned.

And how many times do you need to be told you are perpetuated satan's lie that man has immortality?

How many times do you need to be told you are promoting satan's lie, "You shall not die."

1 Tim. 6:
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;


Who is this king of kings and lord of lords? Messiah!!

16 Who [Messiah] only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The Scriptures do not teach man has a soul. The Scriptures do not teach man goes to heaven [or 'hell'] upon death.

1 Sam. 2:6 is very clear:
“The Lord kills and makes alive (through resurrection); he brings down to the grave (sheol), and brings up”[through resurrection].

"Thou will not leave my SOUL in the grave"

Now the supreme example of this is of Messiah whose “soul was not left in Hades (hell), nor did his flesh see corruption” (Acts 2:31)

Why? Because he was raised. Note the parallel between Christ’s ‘soul’ and his ‘flesh’ or body.

Note it was Messiah's soul, body, himself, his 'flesh' that did not suffer corruption (Acts 2:31)

Last edited by mshipmate; 04-26-2012 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:35 PM
 
12,291 posts, read 5,895,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Good post Mike!

I have a tough time grasping this concept. I have it a little better understood, but still some issues.

The Scripture does say we after physical death are either in Heaven or Sheol/Hades (Luke 16 the guy lifting up his eyes).

It also talks about resurrection, so as many have come to the conclusion that the soul/spirit (I'm not real sure of the distinction) goes back into the body for resurrection for Judgment.

Matthew 27

50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Many scholars look at this emptying as the emptying of "Abraham's Bosom) (Luke 16)<compartment of Sheol>. The only issue I see with that is that this happen at the Lord's crucifixion not resurrection. Thus the Lord being in Sheol (the belly of the earth) for three days and three nights. He must have not been preaching to these folks.

Another spectacular resurrection passage.

Isaiah 26

19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This seems to point to either this event or possibly a rapture, or the resurrection of the living in general. Here is the context however..

20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.


The reference seems to be the Day of the LORD. Rapture?

John 14

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


1 Thessalonians 4:18
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Thanks Lee. The complete man consists of body, soul and spirit. Man is born dichotomous having body and soul, but spiritually dead. The soul is the real person and is capable only of relating to the natural world. The human spirit on the other hand is that part of regenerate man which enables the believer to relate to God. This is why man must be born again. It is a spiritual birth in which God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit and places it within the person who has placed his faith in Christ. John 3:6 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh (fallen man) and that which is born of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is spirit (the human spirit). To the human spirit God imputes His own perfect righteousness and eternal life. Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that the spirit returns to God who gave it. 'then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. But the soul of the unbeliever, minus a human spirit goes into the 'torments' side of Hades (Luke 16:23).

Both the human soul and the human spirit are immaterial and are created directly by God and are immortal. But the human body is the product of human procreation and is mortal.

Since the body is mortal and dies, it needs to be resurrected because God does not intend for man to go through the eternal future as a disembodied spirit.

Therefore, though the believer goes soul and human spirit into the presence of God in heaven at the point of physical death, the issue of the body still needs to be addressed. And it is addressed when the body is resurrected. Resurrection always refers to the body being restored to life in a state of immortality and incorruptability never again subject to physical death.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:37 PM
 
12,291 posts, read 5,895,045 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Thanks Finn. And yes, Stephen knew he was going to heaven.

Acts 7:59 'They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

And if you will notice that Acts 7:55 says that Jesus was standing at the right hand of God. Normally Jesus is seated (Psa 110:1; Col 3:1; Heb 1:3, 13, 8:1; 10:12; 12:2). But that Jesus was standing may mean that Jesus was standing to welcome Stephen to heaven.

Mike the way you proof text passages is just amazing. First Stephen said, "receive my SPIRIT."

What was his spirit? It was pneuma that which is imparted to man, making him a living pusche i.e a living soul.

How many times do you need to be reminded that when God breathed into Adam the breath [spirit] of life Adam became a LIVING SOUL?

Now the word soul means a living creature, but it also means: a person, he/she, me, myself and life.

So in 1 Kings it was the soul i.e the life of the child that returned.

And how many times do you need to be told you are perpetuated satan's lie that man has immortality?

How many times do you need to be told you are promoting satan's lie, "You shall not die."

1 Tim. 6:
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Who is this king of kings and lord of lords? Messiah!!

16 Who [Messiah] only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The Scriptures do not teach man has a soul. The Scriptures do not teach man goes to heaven [or 'hell'] upon death.

1 Sam. 2:6 is very clear:
“The Lord kills and makes alive (through resurrection); he brings down to the grave (sheol), and brings up”[through resurrection].


Now the supreme example of this is of Messiah whose “soul was not left in Hades (hell), nor did his flesh see corruption” (Acts 2:31)

Why? Because he was raised. Note the parallel between Christ’s ‘soul’ and his ‘flesh’ or body.

Note it was Messiah's soul, body, himself, that did not suffer corruption (Acts 2:31)
You have already been refuted in the original post.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:49 PM
 
6,849 posts, read 2,139,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You have already been refuted in the original post.
I don't believe he has been, try again!

(
BTW - It's a Parable!)
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:37 AM
 
666 posts, read 230,833 times
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Mike the ‘immortal soul” ideas came from the famous Greek philosophers not from the ‘bible’. The ‘bible’ knows nothing of ‘immortal souls’.

There is no ‘immortal’ soul, the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated ‘soul’ don’t mean that. The Hebrew and Greek words are also translated as body, breath, creature, heart, mind, person, himself, and life.
The soul therefore refers to ‘you’ or all the things that make up the person. Mike you haven’t notice that many modern versions of the ‘bible’ rarely use the word ‘soul’ now? The translators instead opt to translate the Hebrew and Greek words as ‘you’ or ‘the person’. Such translation is understandable.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:53 AM
 
12,291 posts, read 5,895,045 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by kids in america_ View Post
Mike the ‘immortal soul” ideas came from the famous Greek philosophers not from the ‘bible’. The ‘bible’ knows nothing of ‘immortal souls’.

There is no ‘immortal’ soul, the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated ‘soul’ don’t mean that. The Hebrew and Greek words are also translated as body, breath, creature, heart, mind, person, himself, and life.
The soul therefore refers to ‘you’ or all the things that make up the person. Mike you haven’t notice that many modern versions of the ‘bible’ rarely use the word ‘soul’ now? The translators instead opt to translate the Hebrew and Greek words as ‘you’ or ‘the person’. Such translation is understandable.
To the contrary. The word of God quite clearly shows that man's soul is immortal. The passages already given show that.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,522 posts, read 10,957,482 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kids in america_ View Post
Mike the ‘immortal soul” ideas came from the famous Greek philosophers not from the ‘bible’. The ‘bible’ knows nothing of ‘immortal souls’.

There is no ‘immortal’ soul, the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated ‘soul’ don’t mean that. The Hebrew and Greek words are also translated as body, breath, creature, heart, mind, person, himself, and life.
The soul therefore refers to ‘you’ or all the things that make up the person. Mike you haven’t notice that many modern versions of the ‘bible’ rarely use the word ‘soul’ now? The translators instead opt to translate the Hebrew and Greek words as ‘you’ or ‘the person’. Such translation is understandable.
How do you understand :

Matt 16:26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

and

Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

and

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
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