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Old 04-30-2012, 08:24 PM
 
Location: NC
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Destruction precedes restoration. Even the earth will perish and be changed (Hebrews 1), and so it is with the old man. God bless and peace.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:37 PM
 
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People, this thread is not about eternal condemnation versus Universalism. It is about the immortality of the soul. Passages dealing with Hades and the lake of fire have been introduced only with regard the the immortal soul. Do not turn this thread toward Universalism.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:55 PM
 
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Matthew 27:20
But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas!

And Apollumi Jesus, who resurrected from the dead.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Thanks John. There are those who not only miss that man is born already spiritually dead,
You misconstrue the conception of our spiritual life with being spiritually dead. Is an embryo human baby physically dead because it must fully develop in the womb before it can be alive out here in the physical world? Why would you think our spiritual embryo would be dead while it is fully developing in the spiritual womb before being born as Spirit into the spiritual world?
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Matthew 27:20
But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas!

And Apollumi Jesus, who resurrected from the dead.
When Jesus died, His body went into the tomb and His soul went to Paradise which at the time was one of the compartments of Hades. Luke 23:43 'And He (Jesus ) said to him (the thief), "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

The grave is not Paradise. Since the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ Paradise is now in the third heaven. 2 Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3] And I know how such a man whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows 4] was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You misconstrue the conception of our spiritual life with being spiritually dead. Is an embryo human baby physically dead because it must fully develop in the womb before it can be alive out here in the physical world? Why would you think our spiritual embryo would be dead while it is fully developing in the spiritual womb before being born as Spirit into the spiritual world?
Man is born spiritually dead. He is born dichotomous. Body and soul only. That is why man must be born again - regenerated.

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". When a spiritually dead person places his faith in Christ God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit and places it within that person. God then imputes His righteousness and eternal life to that newly created human spirit. That is regeneration. That is being born again.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5] even when we were dead (spiritually) in our transgressions, made us (believers) alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), The unbeliever, though physically alive is spiritually dead.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When Jesus died, His body went into the tomb and His soul went to Paradise which at the time was one of the compartments of Hades. Luke 23:43 'And He (Jesus ) said to him (the thief), "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

The grave is not Paradise. Since the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ Paradise is now in the third heaven. 2 Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3] And I know how such a man whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows 4] was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
Truly, I say to you today, you have much to learn.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Ecclesiastes 12:7 describes death in these terms: "and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." Notice, that according to this definition, the body has one destination and the soul/spirit has another.

There is additional evidence that the soul leaves the body at death. Several of the resurrection stories in the Bible describe the soul as returning to the body. This implies, of course, that the soul had left in the first place. First, there is the example of Elijah raising the widow’s son from the dead. "And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived” (1 Kings 17:21-22). This passage specifically says that the child’s soul "came into him again." A second example is Jesus’ raising of Jairus’s twelve year old daughter from the dead. "And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. But taking her by the hand he called, saying, "Child, arise." And her spirit returned, and she got up at once (Luke 8:53-55). As in the example, this text also speaks of the soul of a dead person “returning” into the body.
The Spirit is the Breath Of Yehovaw...The Soul is the individual conscientiosness of man...It states in Genesis that after He had fromed Adam, He blew into his nostrils, Life, and then Adam became a living soul...So, if he became a living soul AFTER Yehovaw's Ruach was blown into his nostrils, then what was he before that?...A dead soul?...The sprit of Yehovaw resides in all His cretures, and as they die that spirit returns to Yehovaw, while if the spirit is removed, then logic states that the soul retutns to a state as it was before Yehovaw breathed the breath of life into Adam in order for him to become a living soul...It is the breath of Yehovaw that keeps the soul alive...The dead are aware of nothing...And what Mike said about the parable of the Rich man and lazarus...It is a parable, and it is no detailing the differences between Heaven and Hell...If one looks at the individual attributes of the two, there are nothing that either merits heaven or hell...So, it is obvious that is parabolically speaking of a totaly different issue...And I would say that with the light of the OT, one can decipher it...
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:30 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Truly, I say to you today, you have much to learn.
Being 'caught up' is a Hebraic idiom for having a vision...If you read Enoch...He was caught up to the Heavens, but still remained in his bed in his house...His sons were instructed to not come in and disturb him until he came out of the house...He was having visions of all levels of the heavens, where afterward he was instructed by Yehovaw to record all that he had seen and teach it to his sons...
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The Spirit is the Breath Of Yehovaw...The Soul is the individual conscientiosness of man...It states in Genesis that after He had fromed Adam, He blew into his nostrils, Life, and then Adam became a living soul...So, if he became a living soul AFTER Yehovaw's Ruach was blown into his nostrils, then what was he before that?...A dead soul?...The sprit of Yehovaw resides in all His cretures, and as they die that spirit returns to Yehovaw, while if the spirit is removed, then logic states that the soul retutns to a state as it was before Yehovaw breathed the breath of life into Adam in order for him to become a living soul...It is the breath of Yehovaw that keeps the soul alive...
It has already been explained that the Bible uses the word soul in different ways. People get stuck on Gen 2:7 and don't bother to learn everything the Bible has to say about the soul. The word soul can refer to the complete person, and it can refer to the immaterial part of man which is separate from the body. Passages have already been given which show this.

God does indeed breathe the breath of life - neshamah into man. He breathed the spark of life into the body of Adam which He had just created, and He breathes the breath of life into every person who is born. But the soul is immaterial and survives the death of the body as Scripture shows.

At physical birth man has a body and a soul. When a person receives Christ as Savior he is given a human spirit. The soul and the human spirit of the believer go into the presence of God at physical death. The soul of the unbeliever goes into the 'Torments' side of Hades as Luke 16 says.



Quote:
The dead are aware of nothing...
This too has already previously been explained on this thread. They are aware of nothing going on in this life. The soul is conscious in Hades [B](Luke 16)[/b]and it is conscious in heaven (Rev 6:9-11).


Quote:
And what Mike said about the parable of the Rich man and lazarus...It is a parable, and it is no detailing the differences between Heaven and Hell...If one looks at the individual attributes of the two, there are nothing that either merits heaven or hell...So, it is obvious that is parabolically speaking of a totaly different issue...And I would say that with the light of the OT, one can decipher it...
It is not a parable. It is a story, but not a parable. What Jesus said is clear and is not representing some hidden truth which those listening to Him could not understand. Hades is not describing heaven and hell - the lake of fire. It is describing the different compartments of that temporary place where Old Testament saints went after death - Abraham's Bosom or Paradise, and that place where unbelievers went and still go - 'Torments'.

Hades consists of at least two compartments. Before Christ was resurrected and ascended one of the compartments was Paradise and is where Jesus told the thief he would be with Him (Luke 23:43). The other compartment is called 'Torments' (Luke 16:23). The two compartments are separated by an impassable chasm (Luke 16:26). This chasm may or may not be the abyss spoken of in Revelation 20:1-3 in which Satan will be imprisoned during the Millennium. It is also possible that Tartarus which currently holds in imprisonment a group of fallen angels which were involved in the Genesis 6 affair may be a separate compartment of Hades (1 Pet 3:18-20; 2 Pet 2:4; Jude 6). This as well has already been covered.
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