U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 04-28-2012, 12:47 PM
 
3,441 posts, read 1,413,926 times
Reputation: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
~ Actually Lee scripture shows that there's only one
Land Mass on earth which God entered into a Covenant with
by His Own Oath. And this Land Mass is The City 0f Jerusalem.
Ezekiel 16:1,8

Just because someone says they vow a land mass to God
does not mean He accepts it as His.

Especially seeing that America Vows to
Support, Fight and Die for the right of all gods
to be worshiped equally here as He is.
There was a time where America by and large was a Christian nation in which the Christians voted for Christian principals. Despite the propaganda that this is still the case, it is not. We are not a Pagan nation. In Government and our Judicial system America is separating themselves from God. Examples include taking the 10 commandments out. Taking the name "God" out of the military replacing with Spirit or something along those lines.

So there was a time I believe that God's hand was on this country using it to spread the good news. It would then be honorable to serve this country as it stood for Christian principles. This is not longer the case IMO.

I don't think God's hand is on this country but is about to smote it's rejection. It's pretty sad. No nation has been blessed like ours throughout history, but we've spat on all the blessings denying the source of the blessing.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-28-2012, 12:54 PM
 
Location: US
9,497 posts, read 3,263,229 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
And as far as trying to cherry pick the bible to put together a half#$% defense for killing is sad.

It is not cherry picking...It is Truth from the Bible...Fact is the OT is full of accounts of Israel fighting and slaughtering it's enemies with full endorsment from Yehovaw...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
Jesus said to love our enimies not kill them
Jesus said love one another as I love you he did not only mean to love the ones that only loved us.
Yeshua did not say 'not kill them'...He said to love them...He did not say to allow the enemy to kill YOU...He did say bless those who curse you, pray for those that despitefully use you...He said do not return evil for evil but to return evil with good...We have done this as a nation...remember Japan and Germany after the war?...We gave billions to them and helped them rebuild after the atrocities that they perpetrated on us and others...Extermination of the Jews and gypsies or anyone that did not suscribe to their Nazi belief system?...Anyone who spoke out against them?...And let us not forget what happened at Pearl Harbor?...And how many men, women and children were mudered by the Japanese in China...Usng them for samurai practice and bayonet practice...Using the chinese women for sex anytime they wanted...Cutting babies out of the bellies of chinese women...But yet, after all the blood shed that the Japanese caused...What did we do as a Nation?...Gave them billions to help them re-build...Did Al-Qaeda do that for us?...No...Did the Japanese do that for us?...No...we pulled ourselves back together and then blessed our enemy...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers, not blessed are the war mongers.
When Jesus said put down your sword he was talking to us.
Yeshua also said that He did not come to bring peace but a sword...When He told Peter to put down his sword it was on account of Peter was interferring with what was supposed to occur...His crucifixion...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:02 PM
 
Location: US
9,497 posts, read 3,263,229 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
2003 Lent Message of Bishop John Michael Botean
"Direct participation in this war is the moral equivalent of direct participation in an abortion."
That is his own idea...Where are his Scripture quotes on this idea?...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:18 PM
 
12,230 posts, read 5,823,702 times
Reputation: 1918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
There is nothing honorable or heroic about killing,especially innocent men, women and children; running into a burning building to save a person is heroic and honorable.
To kill the enemy in defense of one's country, to defend the freedom and lives of others against those who would take away their freedom and their lives is honorable and approved and even ordered by God.

There have been many times in the past when Jesus Christ who is God and who is the LORD of Hosts (LORD of the armies) has given the command to completely destroy the enemy. To kill every man, woman, and child. This was done in order to destroy evil and degeneracy. The divine perspective on how to fight a war is to kill the enemy.

To defend and perpetuate the freedom of the Jews after their exodus from Epypt, Jesus Christ who is the LORD of the armies ordered the annihilation of their enemies.

In Joshua 5:13-6:2 Jesus Christ is called the captain of the LORD's host. The captain of the LORD's army. Jesus Christ was the Commander in Chief. Every command that was given to Joshua to kill the enemy came from Jesus Christ Himself. The enemies of Israel were totally degenerate and to protect the Jews from a totally degenerate society God ordered the destruction of that society.

Now, not all war is justified. But a just war is from God. 1 Chron 5:22 'For many fell slain, because the war was of God.'

The Bible says there is a time to go to war (Eccl 3:8).

It can be sinful not to go to war (Num 32:20-23).

Under the principle of nationalism and human government which was founded by God (Gen 9 and 10), the sovereignty and freedom of a country is protected by military strength. Just as the police force protects the freedom and lives of citizens within a nation from the enemy within - the criminal, the military protects the freedom and lives of the citizens of a nation from the enemy without - hostile and aggressive nations.

No one ever has the right to be a Conscientious Objector on either religious or moral grounds. It is both traitorous and cowardly.

And as a citizen of the United States, you owe your freedom to the brave men and women who have fought and died for your freedom. There have been many brave heros who have honorably fought and died in war so that you might live and be free.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: US
9,497 posts, read 3,263,229 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
A true hero

Dale Noyd was a decorated Air Force fighter pilot, who was given a medal for landing a badly damaged, nuclear-armed F-100 Fighter at an English airfield. He also taught at the Air Force Academy. In 1966, after 11 years in the Air Force, he asked that he either be allowed to resign his commission or be classified as a conscientious objector because of his feelings about the Vietnam War.

A True Hero of the Vietnam War, Humanity and Country by Rev. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy
It is obvious that his reasons were for other than thinking fighting was wrong...If it were he would have just asked for the 'conscientious objector' status and not the resignation of his comminsion...Which was what he offered first...An either/or scenario...Tells me that after his situation that he lost his nerve and just did not want to do it anymore, had nothing to do with a personal conviction...If it was, he would have first and foremost stated his conscientious objection and that is it...But He did not, he gave the Congress and either/or statement... If it were, he would have done as Alvin York had done...He wanted out for the reason that he did not want to kill anyone...So, they told him that he could use the 'conscientious objector' clause, however, they told him to go home for a while and read his Bible and that if he had the same objections when he returned that they would sign his discharge for 'conscientious objector'...Even when he returned and did go to WWI europe to fight the Kaiser's Army, he was still against killing...However, when questined about this, after receiving the CMH for taking a whole battallion of German soldiers single handedly prisoner, he told them that he came to the conclusion that it was better for those few German soldiers to die and by that taking the fight out of the rest of them, than for thousands to die because he refused to kill a man...and this SGT Alvin York got from the Bible....He still did not want to kill...But weighing the odds...Was compelled to kill the few in order to save the thousands...And then there is the War to end all wars at the close of the Millenial Kingdom...When satan is loosed for a season from the Pit and gathers an army from the four corners of the earth and wages war against the Son and His Army...And the Son and His Army destroy the Satan and his army...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: US
9,497 posts, read 3,263,229 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
What our veterans are saying about our wars in the Middle East

Home
Not ALL veterans...Some...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Lubec, ME
661 posts, read 361,001 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
I wonder with this as Israel had God's blessing on it has they did not deny him. America has not only denied him but is deliberately taking God our of our Military.

Another thing, our military is not being used for defense really as much as it is being used for special interests in the military industrial complex. Soldiers whether they know it or not take up oaths to protect the UN interests - which are antithetical to defending the constitution. All of this of course being done under the banner of a "Christian" America which isn't of course the truth. The Lord's face is against anyone that is killing others for their own gain.

So this has been a tough one to stomach. I can't recommend any Christian signing up for our military now that's for sure. They'll end up being unequally yoked in bondage to the Satanic principality and powers IMO.

You have some great points. If a soldier is going to find justification with going to battle, they sure better recognize why they are going into battle.


Insofar as the Bible in regards to it: The 10 commandments says "thou shalt not kill." Jesus upheld this command. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise - that somehow killing is justified, is wrong. There is no compromise nor condition. A counter response, using Scripture to invalidate this command is both dangerous and treasonous to the Scripture.

That's the blunt, legalistic definition and I believe it holds up. Another poster up above talked about the mindset behind the motive to go to battle. This is terribly important if you do not choose to accept the Biblical command as universal; but this is a fine line to wander when the easy path would be to take the Word for what it is.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Lubec, ME
661 posts, read 361,001 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
That is a question that has always been in my mind for a long time...A freind of mine, who is now a Pastor, before going to Hatfield Bible Seminary, attended and was degreed from Lafayette University in History...This he said gave him the tools to ferret out Truth and use logic and reason before going on to obtain his divinity degree...He said, if I remember correctly, that the item in the Bill of Rights on Religious Freedom was not penned with all religions in mind, But rather with the atrocities that occured in Europe where one was forced to follow the Christian doctrine of the state...In other words we as a new republic were not going to follow the old ways in forming a nation with a national religion, for many fled to the new world because of persecution...Puritans, Anibaptists, Presbyterians, Quakers, Shakers, etc...And with that fresh in their memories, they penned the religious freedom item of the Bill of Rights...It was to prevent those who thought they had all the answers from persecuting others as the Catholic Church did to the Protestants in europe with full immunity...And then the Protestants in turn did to the Anibaptists...They did not have in mind protecting the Eastern Mystery Religions, etc...But, the Doctrines of Christianity...However people have interpreted it to mean even Satanism is to be protected from persecution...Which just were not the thoughts of the Christian Forefathers that penned the Constitution of the United States...We were not going to do what they where doing in Europe nor tolerate it...Remember, seperation of Church and State, using this terminalogy would imply (Church?) that they were thinking from a Christian standpoint...All christians believe Yeshua is the Way, however they all have minor differences, some baptize infants, while others believe that one should be of an age of accountability before one is baptized, etc....These were minor differences that those in Europe were perscuting people unto death for espousing...This was exactly what the ammendment was designed to prevent...Not protecting ALL Religions...Buddhism, Shintoism, Islam, etc...But Christian thought...The way in which we serve Yehovaw should not be guided by the State, but by our own convictions...The Bible tells us not to argue over Doctrine, for it profits us nothing and causes divisions...Look at us today for not following that simple rule....So, no, the creaters of the Constitution did not have ALL Religions in mind when they wrote the Bill of Rights item on Religious Freedom, for them there was only One True Religion, that of Yehovaw and Yeshua....

You're wrong.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Lubec, ME
661 posts, read 361,001 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
What would you do if a 9 year od child came running out of a house in Iraq and pointed a 9mm at your chest and unloaded it into your chest?...
I would suppose I would die, eh?


But of course, I would not be in someone else's land under false pretenses to begin with. I could have walked in with a Bible and a cross under correct pretenses; or I could be one of a military personal ordered by George Bush under false pretenses. You have the same choice.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2012, 01:33 PM
 
12,230 posts, read 5,823,702 times
Reputation: 1918
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_atw View Post
You have some great points. If a soldier is going to find justification with going to battle, they sure better recognize why they are going into battle.


Insofar as the Bible in regards to it: The 10 commandments says "thou shalt not kill." Jesus upheld this command. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise - that somehow killing is justified, is wrong. There is no compromise nor condition. A counter response, using Scripture to invalidate this command is both dangerous and treasonous to the Scripture.

That's the blunt, legalistic definition and I believe it holds up. Another poster up above talked about the mindset behind the motive to go to battle. This is terribly important if you do not choose to accept the Biblical command as universal; but this is a fine line to wander when the easy path would be to take the Word for what it is.
To the contrary. You are both wrong and misguided. The command is that you will not murder. Not all killing is murder. Refer to my post #34.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top