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Why all the concern over core beliefs, false teaching, false prophets and similar accusations that plague Christian Universalism . . . as if anything we proclaim matters to God? How can you forget the obvious . . . God is not fooled? The ONLY thing God cares about is our actual consciousness (beliefs or state of mind . . . also known as what is in our heart) and that cannot be faked, ever. Either we actually believe Christ and follow His commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . or we do NOT. What we proclaim to believe is completely irrelevant to God . . . since He does NOT NEED any of that to know what is in our heart.
I'm not sure if getting you wound-up again makes sense ... since you insist on categorically classifying me as a "liar" and "Bibilean" ... (in your heart?) But, you seem to be saying in the above that God IS concerned with what is in a person's heart.
How does that fit into the concept of 'universal salvation for all' ... regardless of what is in one's heart. (Please try to answer without name-calling).
I'm not sure if getting you wound-up again makes sense ... since you insist on categorically classifying me as a "liar" and "Bibilean" ... (in your heart?)
When you present lies about Christian Universalism (either deliberately or in ignorance) what should they be called? Anyone who reveres the Bible (idolatry) and believes it is literal and inerrant is a Biblean.
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But, you seem to be saying in the above that God IS concerned with what is in a person's heart.
That is ALL God is concerned with . . . "Love of God and each other." It cannot be chosen, claimed or faked. It either exists or it doesn't. They are many who claim belief and claim love who do NOT . . . and vice versa. But God is not fooled and we WILL reap what we sow . . . BUT NOT MORE than we sow.
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How does that fit into the concept of 'universal salvation for all' ... regardless of what is in one's heart. (Please try to answer without name-calling).
It fits because our salvation has NOTHING to do with us. Christ DID it, period. It is finished. But our sanctification is another matter and we achieve that through "love of God and each other" daily or repentance when we don't in this life . . . or we will be "refined" after our physical death and rebirth as Spirit . . . "as if by fire."
The Bible says hell is real and eternal. ok? it just does. this is the least questionable issue in orthodox christianity, imo.
It is not God who is telling you that hell is not forever. you aren't people who have special understanding on this that others don't understand because we don't understand what God's love truly is. ok?
When Jesus talks about hell, fire, and brimstone, he is not talking about trial-by-fire to correct unbelievers. you are puffing that up because you are really hoping.
when God says He is not willing that any should perish, that has nothing to do with what you seem to think it does. In the case in 2Peter, he then follows saying, ",but wanting everyone to come to repentence". --paraphrase.
why does he want everyone to come to repentence? to avoid having to go through this trial-by-fire?
then you still run into why you're lying to yourself about all the verses where Jesus qualifies "destruction", "hell", or "torment" with the words "eternal" or "everlasting".
Is the Bible the absolute authority on God's word? or is your unexamined, childish belief in God's special revelation to you TRULY of God?
If you can't get yourself to believe in eternal hell because it hypothetically would seem so evil, you really need to rethink what sin is, consider whether you're loving people more than God, and consider what it means that God is "Holy".
Love people while you are here, to bear witness of God. But if someone rejects God and hates His ways, when it's out of our hands, let God do what He sees fit.
But our sanctification is another matter and we achieve that through "love of God and each other" daily or repentance when we don't in this life . . . or we will be "refined" after our physical death and rebirth as Spirit . . . "as if by fire."
Man, you KNOW you are making up those interpretations of "fire" or "brimstone"...
You just happened to find a sense of the word that matches what you HOPE.
The Bible says hell is real and eternal. ok? it just does. this is the least questionable issue in orthodox christianity, imo.
If you try to find quotes in the bible where it really says that as fact and not as a parable or symbolism, you can't. You should study the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the word "hell" and you might be surprised.
The Bible says hell is real and eternal. ok? it just does. this is the least questionable issue in orthodox christianity, imo.
It is not God who is telling you that hell is not forever. you aren't people who have special understanding on this that others don't understand because we don't understand what God's love truly is. ok?
When Jesus talks about hell, fire, and brimstone, he is not talking about trial-by-fire to correct unbelievers. you are puffing that up because you are really hoping.
when God says He is not willing that any should perish, that has nothing to do with what you seem to think it does. In the case in 2Peter, he then follows saying, ",but wanting everyone to come to repentence". --paraphrase.
why does he want everyone to come to repentence? to avoid having to go through this trial-by-fire?
then you still run into why you're lying to yourself about all the verses where Jesus qualifies "destruction", "hell", or "torment" with the words "eternal" or "everlasting".
Is the Bible the absolute authority on God's word? or is your unexamined, childish belief in God's special revelation to you TRULY of God?
If you can't get yourself to believe in eternal hell because it hypothetically would seem so evil, you really need to rethink what sin is, consider whether you're loving people more than God, and consider what it means that God is "Holy".
Love people while you are here, to bear witness of God. But if someone rejects God and hates His ways, when it's out of our hands, let God do what He sees fit.
Good post.
Amen to this comment of yours which definitely needs to be repeated -
If you can't get yourself to believe in eternal hell because it hypothetically would seem so evil, you really need to rethink what sin is, consider whether you're loving people more than God, and consider what it means that God is "Holy".
Man, you KNOW you are making up those interpretations of "fire" or "brimstone"...
You just happened to find a sense of the word that matches what you HOPE.
Actually, there are certain reasons to consider that interpretation as many theologians, Pastors and Greek scholars have to some degree. I'm not entirely convinced of this universal reconciliation position myself, but I am sympathetic to their reasoning and if you do an honest study of the history of the position and these Greek words rather than just relying on blind acceptance of the popular and traditionalist position as most do (especially if they have a paid in a Church under a denomination), you would know why he's not just making that up. Here's a place to start regarding the "fire and Brimstone" topic: the Greek word "theion"
Just as a point of clarification, a Sticky would not be possible.
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