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Old 05-10-2012, 08:00 PM
 
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This turns out to be a very important concept to understand because it has influenced people's view of Soteriology - Salvation from Eternal Perdition.

John 5:24-25

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This turns out to be very significant because there are two different resurrections:
  1. The first resurrection in which the second death has no power
  2. The resurrection of the dead that are subject to the second death after the 1000 year period.
Notice in Revelation 20:6 that those not subject to the second death will have responsibility in the Millennium. They must be resurrected prior to the Great White Throne Judgment. There are two different Judgments - those Justified by Christ and those that aren't.

This turns out to be very important as many have added their "Works" as a basis for being accepted or rejected by God.

Revelation 20


11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


As no one is saved by Works (Ephesians 2:8-10)(Galatians 3)(Romans 4,5)(Acts 15) etc, this is not talking about the Works of the believer having basis for their Justification.

This is talking about Judgment of the unsaved after the 1000 year Millennium. Evidently there are levels of damnation for the unsaved.

Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

There is also levels of "saved" as well - some receive awards/crowns and some will lose inheritance due to faithfulness.

This is talking about the First resurrection of the Justified - in which the second death has no power.

1 Corinthians 3

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.



Eternal Life is a Free Gift


Romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Given to those that sincerely ask from the heart
recognizing their offense turning to God in Jesus Christ through Faith.

Luke 23:38-45


38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, This Is The King Of The Jews.

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.


We can not Earn/Work for God's Grace - only receive it by Faith.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

If we are working to receive Grace, from God's perspective it is making him our debtor. We are indebted to him with a debt we can not pay. Therefore it is Grace is freely given.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If we are working for Grace it is not counted as Work. The only work that counts is the Work that the Holy Spirit does through the believer producing fruit (Ephesians 2:10).

The Gift of Eternal Life that was Freely Given will not be taken back.

Romans 11:28-30

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The Saved individual has been Purchased with the Price of the Lord Jesus Christ's Blood.


1 Corinthians 6:19-20

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


What happens to those that have been purchased/saved/Justified in Christ but unfaithful?

Matthew 25

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


This is talking about the "First Resurrection". This Judgment has both those that received ten talents as well as the "unprofitable servant".
This Judgment is based upon one's performance. Justification is independent of Man's "works". The outer darkness the individual was cast into must not be the "Lake of Fire" as that Judgment occurs after the Millennium. So what is this?

While Paul knew his Justification was in Christ alone, he was concerned about something..

1 Corinthians 9:23-27

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Paul talks about running a race to win a prize in that failure on his part could result in being "castaway".

The Lord also makes this distinction.

Luke 9:25
For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?


What these people are losing is inheritance not Salvation based upon their faithfulness/"Works" using the "Whole Council of God". Evidently there will be Saved individuals that are rejected to serve in God's purposes.

The Lord is looking for fruit. Fruitful lives provides for the Lord's purpose.

Saved by Grace apart from Works but reap what is sown.

Understanding the two different resurrections and the Millennium are important as it has caused much confusion among many over the years over important issues such as Soteriology - Salvation from Perdition.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:11 AM
 
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In the age before Jesus, God and even man had very little power or control over the rough house that the adversary gave against man and his will to resist , were even heaven was terrorised.......... Then Jesus came a won the authority over the earth that was lost , by Adams failure to take authority .... So complete power over the heaven and the earth is here today in this age of grace, but like Adam, people need to have faith in the Lord and have one accord in love with the Lord and all people , and the adversary can be overtaken ......... Then at the end of this age , and people come up short in faith in the earth , then Jesus bring renewal in the earth and takes up His authority in the earth and removes the adversary and his authority from the earth, which is this Millennium , and raises up the body of Christ in this first Resurrection........ Then there will be an age of Grace like before were all people will know Lord Jesus and need faith to receive , but there will be no adversary in the earth ..... See God proves the heart of man through the ages and his influences against his will by the adversary and then no adversary to prove man heart........ But as this age goes, men heart will fail in the end and allow sin to return which will give the adversary access to return to the earth to deceive the nations again and final war were God remnant are surrounded and God finishes the war , then to raise up for the great Judgment of every one...... God will have His Children in the end and it will be a victory
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:25 AM
 
6,826 posts, read 4,614,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
In the age before Jesus, God and even man had very little power or control over the rough house that the adversary gave against man and his will to resist , were even heaven was terrorised.......... Then Jesus came a won the authority over the earth that was lost , by Adams failure to take authority ....
Well man was given the authority over the earth.

Genesis 1

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


He lost dominion through disobedience (Genesis 3) to angels.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Messiah regained dominion for man. The whole reason he is reigning as the head of the human race is because God became a Man. All authority has been given to him.

Quote:
So complete power over the heaven and the earth is here today in this age of grace, but like Adam, people need to have faith in the Lord and have one accord in love with the Lord and all people , and the adversary can be overtaken ......... Then at the end of this age , and people come up short in faith in the earth , then Jesus bring renewal in the earth and takes up His authority in the earth and removes the adversary and his authority from the earth, which is this Millennium , and raises up the body of Christ in this first Resurrection........ Then there will be an age of Grace like before were all people will know Lord Jesus and need faith to receive , but there will be no adversary in the earth ..... See God proves the heart of man through the ages and his influences against his will by the adversary and then no adversary to prove man heart........ But as this age goes, men heart will fail in the end and allow sin to return which will give the adversary access to return to the earth to deceive the nations again and final war were God remnant are surrounded and God finishes the war , then to raise up for the great Judgment of every one...... God will have His Children in the end and it will be a victory
To hold this position, one has to claim we are in the Millennium the Book of Revelation is talking about as demonstrated. The problem with this is that Messiah has not come back as well as Satan has not being chained. The "redeemed" are also not reigning with Jesus Christ in the Millennium.

The concept of us currently being in the Millennium is nonbiblical. This is yet future.

The important thing is that the "Parable of the Talents" can not be talking about casting the "unprofitable servant" into the Lake of Fire but in another component called the "Outer Darkness" which looks to be associated with being "Cast away".

To claim the Parable is talking about Damnation is to suggest a works based salvation. That is not what the Scriptures say however. The man must be losing his inheritance for poor performance, but saved from Damnation being Justified in Christ.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:26 PM
 
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I would be interested in hearing why those that reject a literal Millennium hold the view that they do.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:09 PM
 
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lee9786, it goes back to the very early church when the Romish church went against the Chiliasts (thousand year-ists). Each generation has been snookered into believing the Romish trash that there is no coming literal Millennium. But they haven't blinded everyone.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:43 PM
 
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I am the way, truth, and life.

One Death.
One Burial.
One Resurrection.

One Truth.
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:05 AM
 
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~ The First Rapture:
The Marriage 0f The Lamb, has no Resurrection.

Matt.24:31 - Matt.25 - Rev.7:9


~ 2nd-Rapture/1st-Resurrection:

The 1,000 yr Reign is of The Davidic (messiah-christ) Kingdom on earth.

1. Messiah/Christ - King of kings and Lord of lords - The Lamb.
2. The 12 Apostles 0f The Lamb - Judges for The 12 Tribes 0f Israel. - Matt.19:28/Rev.20:4
3. The 144,000 of all The Tribes 0f The Children 0f Israel. - Rev.14:4
4. And the rest beheaded by the beast for their witness to Jesus & the word of God. Rev.20:4

~ The Second Ressurrection, of no Rapture:
The Great White Throne Judgement.

So that's Two Raptures and Two Resurrection.

A Rapture: Without a resurrection. (Wedding In New Jerusalem)
A Resurrection With A Rapture (1,000 yr reign on earth)
A Resurrection: Without a rapture. (White Throne Judgement)
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