+*+*Is Your Bible Translation Innerant? *+*+ (Gospel, Lutherans, doctrine, woman)

[Eusebius]

This is in response to pcamps post in Is the Bible Your Idol thread.

He said the Bible is not inerrant. I asked him for a verse in the New Testament which was errant.

So I thought I would provide one in a translation many revere: The KJV:

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto
him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be
the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


The errant word is "world" at the end of the verse.

The world does not come to an end when all those things occur which Christ enumerated.

The Greek word in that verse is "AIWN" or eon/aeon/age which the translators inappropriately translated "world."
It is the eon which concludes when all those things take place and the millennial eon comes afterward. Then after the millennial reign ends the new earth comes out of a scorched earth.

The word "world" in Greek is KOSMOS, not AIWN. Where God used AIWN He meant aeon or age.

Here are some translations which have the above verse correct:

(CLV) Now at His sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him
privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign
of Thy presence and of the conclusion of the eon?

(LITV) And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to
Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And, What is the
sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?

(WNT) Afterwards He was on the Mount of Olives and was seated there
when the disciples came to Him, apart from the others, and said, "Tell us
when this will be; and what will be the sign of your Coming and of the
Close of the Age?"

(YLT) And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples
came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and
what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

This is in response to pcamps post in Is the Bible Your Idol thread.

He said the Bible is not inerrant. I asked him for a verse in the New Testament which was errant.

So I thought I would provide one in a translation many revere: The KJV:

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto
him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be
the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


The errant word is "world" at the end of the verse.

The world does not come to an end when all those things occur which Christ enumerated.

The Greek word in that verse is "AIWN" or eon/aeon/age which the translators inappropriately translated "world."
It is the eon which concludes when all those things take place and the millennial eon comes afterward. Then after the millennial reign ends the new earth comes out of a scorched earth.

The word "world" in Greek is KOSMOS, not AIWN. Where God used AIWN He meant aeon or age.

Here are some translations which have the above verse correct:

(CLV) Now at His sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him
privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign
of Thy presence and of the conclusion of the eon?

(LITV) And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to
Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And, What is the
sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?

(WNT) Afterwards He was on the Mount of Olives and was seated there
when the disciples came to Him, apart from the others, and said, "Tell us
when this will be; and what will be the sign of your Coming and of the
Close of the Age?"

(YLT) And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples
came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and
what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

I also asked you to provide one single verse from the bible in your hand,that proves without a shadow of doubt that the bible is inerrant, also while you are at it,one that authenticates the New Testament as being scripture.

[Eusebius]

The New Testament is God's Holy Word, the Sacred Scripture:

Paul completed the Word of God:

Col_1:25 of which I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to
me for you, to complete the word of God -"

1Th_2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard
from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God,
which is operating also in you who are believing."

There was a

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him Who is able to establish you in accord with my evangel, and the
heralding of Christ Jesus in accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian, (26) yet
manifested now and through prophetic scriptures, according to the injunction of the eonian God
being made known to all nations for faith-obedience -"

Notice the secret hushed before and never revealed in the Old Testament but it is manifested NOW and through prophetic scriptures of the NT prophets.

As to truth, the Bible is inerrant.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

The New Testament is God's Holy Word, the Sacred Scripture:

Paul completed the Word of God:

Col_1:25 of which I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to
me for you, to complete the word of God -"

1Th_2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard
from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God,
which is operating also in you who are believing."

There was a

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him Who is able to establish you in accord with my evangel, and the
heralding of Christ Jesus in accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian, (26) yet
manifested now and through prophetic scriptures, according to the injunction of the eonian God
being made known to all nations for faith-obedience -"

Notice the secret hushed before and never revealed in the Old Testament but it is manifested NOW and through prophetic scriptures of the NT prophets.

As to truth, the Bible is inerrant.

Stretching it to say the least Eusebius.

The Word could never be confined to ink on a paper*. The word to the believer is Christ in you the hope of Glory, that the Spirt of God in you leads you. That you need no man to teach you, for the anointing teaches us.

*Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

[Prairieparson]

Eusebius on this point is correct: No TRANSLATION is inerrant. They do differ somewhat, even the best ones. This is why the more conservative Lutherans have insisted that their pastors learn Greek, and in many cases Hebrew. In this way, the pastor can read the text in the original language. Anyone who has worked with more than one language knows you can't make a perfect word for word translation. EG; Greek has three different words that in English become love. Yet the meanings in the Greek are very different of these three words. The pastor then can explain to his congregation more clearly the meanings of the text.

Now even the text in the Greek and Hebrew is not perfect. However, they are very close. Many copies collected over the years have been painstakingly compared and debated to try to figure out what is exactly what the original author wrote. It is the original writing that was inerrant, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, in which God guided the author to correctly put down Jesus words and other instructions and teaching. We don't have those original manuscripts, but many copies were made, and it is these copies that we have and have been compiled and compared. So at this point, we can be pretty sure that we are extremely close to what they wrote. After all, they do have over 5000 copies in parts or whole, some going back to the second century.

This is why certain texts have been either deleted or marked as questionable in their authenticity in the Bible. For example. Mark 16:8 is actually the last words of Marks Gospel. Somewhere along the way, someone got creative and added 12 more verses, and they ended up in the KJV. This was discovered and now a good Bible will make notations to tell the reader that this is not original text. This is also true of the first part of John 8. The woman caught in sin was not originally in John's Gospel.

[pcamps]

Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God is the inerrant one. He is the Word of God.

Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!"

Looking unto Jesus the AUTHOR of our faith . How do we look unto Jesus ?, by reading the bible ? . Did God leave us as orphans with a bible ? . Or did He return to tabernacle in us, that we might know Him,whom to know is life Age enduring ?.

[twin.spin]

John 10:34-35
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—


A careful study of this verse shows that the spoken word of God and "the scriptures" are held as equals, Jesus does not differentiate between the two. To claim that the scriptures is not inerrent is to accuse God of being the same.

As a different poster stated, that is why it's imperative that there is the correct understand of the Greek \ Hebrew as to it proper context. The Dead Sea Scrolls (which predates the Septugant) still validates that we have the inerrent word of God because the DSS's were in use during Jesus' time.

Yes I will admit, there are organizations who deliberatly change certian verses in their published KJV's to fit their doctrine...... John 1:1 is a classic example. The NIV 2011 is questionable due to the publisher's attempt to make it more p.c. by making it more gender neutral where it's should not be.

But despite that, I have more faith in Jesus' promise of his word never passing away than spending time looking for a reason to denounce the Bible.

[Cyber Munchkin]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

John 10:34-35
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—


A careful study of this verse shows that the spoken word of God and "the scriptures" are held as equals, Jesus does not differentiate between the two. To claim that the scriptures is not inerrent is to accuse God of being the same.

As a different poster stated, that is why it's imperative that there is the correct understand of the Greek \ Hebrew as to it proper context. The Dead Sea Scrolls (which predates the Septugant) still validates that we have the inerrent word of God because the DSS's were in use during Jesus' time.

Yes I will admit, there are organizations who deliberatly change certian verses in their published KJV's to fit their doctrine...... John 1:1 is a classic example. The NIV 2011 is questionable due to the publisher's attempt to make it more p.c. by making it more gender neutral where it's should not be.

But despite that, I have more faith in Jesus' promise of his word never passing away than spending time looking for a reason to denounce the Bible.

Amen.... Twin

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

John 10:34-35
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—


A careful study of this verse shows that the spoken word of God and "the scriptures" are held as equals, Jesus does not differentiate between the two. To claim that the scriptures is not inerrent is to accuse God of being the same.

As a different poster stated, that is why it's imperative that there is the correct understand of the Greek \ Hebrew as to it proper context. The Dead Sea Scrolls (which predates the Septugant) still validates that we have the inerrent word of God because the DSS's were in use during Jesus' time.

Yes I will admit, there are organizations who deliberatly change certian verses in their published KJV's to fit their doctrine...... John 1:1 is a classic example. The NIV 2011 is questionable due to the publisher's attempt to make it more p.c. by making it more gender neutral where it's should not be.

But despite that, I have more faith in Jesus' promise of his word never passing away than spending time looking for a reason to denounce the Bible.

Twin you are flogging a dead horse. I do not believe scripture can be broken . If you think the bible you have has not been added to and taken away from you are fooling yourself. pneuma on a number of threads did a great job of pointing out by scripture how this was done.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Stretching it to say the least Eusebius.

The Word could never be confined to ink on a paper*. The word to the believer is Christ in you the hope of Glory, that the Spirt of God in you leads you. That you need no man to teach you, for the anointing teaches us.

*Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

"Written" is used 42 times just in Paul's writings and 113 times in the New Testament. I believe it is important to know what "it is written" about.

pcamps, there is "the word" and there is "the Word." There is the word about the Word and there is the word about the kingdom and the word about the evangel.

Joh 12:38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet, which he said, may be being fulfilled, "Lord, who believes our tidings? And the arm of the Lord, to whom was it revealed?

The word was written in the verse above. Else they couldn't know what Isaiah said.

Joh_15:20 Remember the word which I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his lord.' If Me they persecute, you they will be persecuting also. If My word they keep, yours also will they be keeping."

That word was written down. If it wasn't you wouldn't know about it 2000 years removed.

Joh_15:25 but it is that the word written in their law may be fulfilled, that they hate Me gratuitously."

There is the word written in their law.

There is the word of the promise as written:
Rom_9:9 For the word of the promise is this: At "this seasonI shall come
"and there will be for Sarah a son."

There is the word of the cross:

1Co_1:18 For the word of the cross is stupidity, indeed, to those who are
perishing, yet to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

Paul wrote extensively about the word of the cross.

There is the word which is written:
1Co_15:54 Now, whenever this corruptible should be putting on
incorruption and this mortal should be putting on immortality, then shall
come to pass the word which is written, Swallowed up was Death by
Victory."


There is correctly cutting or "rightly dividing" the word:
2Ti 2:15 Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth."