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Old 05-29-2012, 04:18 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,243,095 times
Reputation: 1204
Dogknox, please answer my previous questions and then I'll respond to yours Thanks!

Quote:
I disagree with this. Only God can change a heart. Man of himself will not come to God. God must enlighten and bring about the change. Our salvation is not of ourselves. It is from God. God is on the throne, not man.
I will share this:

Jeremiah 17: "9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
10 “I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the [e]mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the [f]results of his deeds."
God bless and peace.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:34 AM
 
467 posts, read 151,987 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Dogknox, please answer my previous questions and then I'll respond to yours Thanks!



I will share this:

Jeremiah 17: "9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
10 “I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the [e]mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the [f]results of his deeds."
God bless and peace.
Hebrews 3:8
do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,

All men are tempted, some survive some fall to the temptation!!
Even Jesus was tempted!!

It is FREE will and only free will, that is the deciding factor in surviving. God does NOT forces anyone to do right!
We are not robots!

Dogknox
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,243,095 times
Reputation: 1204
Quote:
Hebrews 3:8
do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,



Amen!


Hi, I never said that we are robots But God works all things according to the counsel of His will, believe it or not (Eph. 1)

God bless and peace.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,243,095 times
Reputation: 1204
Quote:
Hebrews 3:8
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,

Also, Dogknox, I never stated that we did not have a self will or a personal will. Robots don't have a self will or a personal will. I don't believe that it is a free will because God is on the throne and works all things according to the counsel of His own will. He is the captain of the ship and leads us to His destination. God bless and peace.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
918 posts, read 414,697 times
Reputation: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post



Also, Dogknox, I never stated that we did not have a self will or a personal will. Robots don't have a self will or a personal will. I don't believe that it is a free will because God is on the throne and works all things according to the counsel of His own will. He is the captain of the ship and leads us to His destination. God bless and peace.
Amen, Shana.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:06 AM
 
153 posts, read 63,324 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
All men are tempted, some survive some fall to the temptation!!
Even Jesus was tempted!!

It is FREE will and only free will, that is the deciding factor in surviving. God does NOT forces anyone to do right!
We are not robots!
but He uses coercion (according to mainstream churchianity), does He not?, you know , love me or burn:


coercion:
  1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force


As for the robot thing: we are referred to being like clay, and what does clay do on its' own?

Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jeremiah 18:6
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


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Old 05-31-2012, 05:13 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,243,095 times
Reputation: 1204
Quote:
Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jeremiah 18:6
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Agree, ultimately, God is the Potter and we are the clay in His hands. He has a purpose and works all things according to His purpose. God bless and peace.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:18 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,243,095 times
Reputation: 1204
When I think about the belief that the Creator can never make someone love Him, I had this picture in my mind of some person sticking his tongue out at God like a kid and yelling, "You can't make me love you!"

And God who is love, just chuckles to Himself and says softly, "You wanna bet?"

Just an image God bless and peace.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,339 posts, read 2,449,324 times
Reputation: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
The realization is that the disobedience of Adam will not be greater than what Jesus accomplished in His death and resurrection. What Jesus did will undo what happened to the whole human race when Adam sinned. God is a just God and He is a Savior, the deliverer of all who were born to become sinners. God bless and peace.
Amen!!
Everyone will agree with you that it is "just" that God condemned all men to become slaves to sin because of the disobedience of Adam.

But almost no one will agree with you that God is "just" to make all men justified through the obedience of the Last Adam that will ever be necessary: Jesus Christ.

They say that man has free will to accept Christ, but no free will to be made a sinner!!


Blessings Shana!
brian
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,339 posts, read 2,449,324 times
Reputation: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by boanerges View Post
but He uses coercion (according to mainstream churchianity), does He not?, you know , love me or burn:


coercion:
  1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force


As for the robot thing: we are referred to being like clay, and what does clay do on its' own?

Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jeremiah 18:6
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


AMEN here too!!

There is such beauty in considering the omnipotence of God... to know that all things are in His control... that nothing happens without His permission...

Modern Christianity doesn't believe that God can save mankind! They only believe that He gives man "a chance" to "save himself." But the idea that God can form and change a man to become well-pleasing in His sight, is unbelievable!

Blessings,
brian
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