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being saved i think gets played up too much.
sounds like the cortez conversion of the indians, after enslavement being saved did not seem like much fun.
i think we need to get on the right path. trouble is each man is righteous in his own eyes so we need the standards of the group to help us some.
Evangelical Christanity as a lot to answer for. The message you are a dirty rotten sinner,that anything good you do is scorned on by them and God unless you have admitted you are a sinner and become a Christian, is not the message of Jesus Christ.That a confession of faith in the bible and its supposed doctrines(whitewashed tomb Christianity) is looked upon as higher than actually living a life of faith( shall He find faith on the earth)and love( the vehicle that drives faith). The fear they place on themselves and those they try and reach for Jesusby what they believe about heaven and hell and taking everything they read in the bible literally, keeps them from entering and experiencing the true grace and love of God ( we know it by experience, not because the bible says so).
Tony x3 what you endorse as Christianity, Jesus Christ ripped into it and called it for what it is.
Jesus said "be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect". Matt 5:48
Once we are IN CHRIST we are a new creation, born again. God expects us to live like we are. If we dont live in obedience to him, and if we are not like him in our character we will be lost ie....cast into Gehenna.
Obedience (this is the WAY)is nothing more than walking by faith in His Love, loving our neighbor as ourselves.
When Jesus said if you love me you will obey my commands, He was basically saying I AM the fulfillment of the Law, which Paul said Love IS the fulfillment of it. So if you Love me you WILL fulfill( be obedient to) the Law.He was not talking about obedience in the manner that we are to do as we are told or else.
I see it another way. Jesus said ONLY those who actually DO the will of God will be saved in the end. All else will be lost.
The unconditional salvation thing is a distortion.
Well what is the will of God to you ?. Are you living up to what you beleve in regards to the will of God 100% ?.
The will of God is his commandments. As in the sermon on the mount. Or any of his other commands set forth by the Apostles. If it turned out I was not really living the life of an overcomer what would that change for you? Would others be exused because I failed God?
The will of God is his commandments. As in the sermon on the mount. Or any of his other commands set forth by the Apostles. If it turned out I was not really living the life of an overcomer what would that change for you? Would others be exused because I failed God?
Not at all.
My question to you was are you doing the will of God ?.if you are not you are condemned to being lost too by your own beliefs. Or do you simpy excuse yourself when you are not doing His will ?.
You see Christians set themselves up for failure and self condemation by raising a bar that they do not attain to themselves , and if you condemn others to being lost and sent to hell, you are under the same condemation, because failure in them is no different to your own failure.
It's a shame such an important issue such as Soteriology (Salvation from Perdition) has widespread interpretations across Christian groups. This has been a huge source of division.
It's pretty clear our good works are meaningless to a Holy God, we need to be "in Christ" to be purified. The question remains then is there a condition to remaining "in Christ?"
Does God give eternal life "freely" and then take it away again upon disobedience and then give it again upon repentance?
I also find it interesting so many are so enamored with insisting we are still under the Ten Commandments. The groups point to the Sabbath commonly and how we have to "keep" it for Justification. What I'm amazed at is "Thou shall not covet" is the Ten Commandments as well. So if you covet, you are under condemnation evidently in their system... The Law is one complete package. As demonstrated from the Scriptures in our Sabbath thread, we are not under the Mosaic Law - 10 commandments and all.
We could debate this issue further, or just all agree that the Lord wants fruit in our lives.
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
This is about dying to self while allowing God to work through us producing fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5).
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by what they believe about heaven and hell and taking everything they read in the bible literally, keeps them from entering and experiencing the true grace and love of God ( we know it by experience, not because the bible says so). 
