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Old 06-12-2012, 03:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I've seen so many people over the years come to this conclusion and frankly, it broke my heart. I don't care what science discovers, I don't see a reason to ever doubt God's existence.
I'm sorry if it upsets you that people come to doubt, but you can't live peoples' lives for them. Just try to make sure that you have it right, yourself.

Quote:
Yes but I was speaking of thousands of years ago, before North America was discovered. Of course today, people of different races CAN live in different places. But that isn't the question. Looking at where people came from originally is where you see their differences. ie: Mongolians, Eskimos, Native Americans, Caucasians, Middle Easterners, Asians, Hispanic. Are we supposed to pretend we don't notice that an Aborigine from Australia, a pygmy from Africa, a Sherpa from the Himalayas, a Mexican and a Swedish person all look like they came from the same place and all look the same?

I guess that's the simpler question. Where did the races come from? If we all came from Noah's family, how did we get different races? And please don't say we are all the human race. People didn't just change. They changed to reflect their environment.
Maybe it's the evolution word that throws people off. Maybe we should say "Adaptation" instead? Like God has allowed for adaptation for his creations?




That's a possibility, but still it doesn't explain where we'd get other peoples from. Black, white, Hispanic, native American, Asian. We all came from two different races?



This reminds me of the Russian Fox experiments we learned about. That taking wild foxes and breeding them over and over for generations not only results in a fox that acts like a dog and loves people, but they start to get actual spots on them and change colors, their noses got rounder. They started to resemble dogs. Animals over time can grow and change into other animals. Wouldn't that be considered evolution? If not, what is the word for it.

I think that is the ultimate in the brilliance of God. He created a being to adapt.

It bothers me that so many people use science as a reason to doubt the existence of God. To me, the more we discover science, the more I realize just how great our Father is. I realize how little man-kind knows.

I just can't get past the fact that the story of the entire world and every living species, plant and animal consists of ONE page. God has told us the truth. I have no doubts about that. But He didn't give us every last detail. And why should He? We are his children. He doesn't owe us an explanation. That's why wherever science makes a discovery that people think discounts the Bible, I think the opposite. I see God in science. The brilliance behind how everything works. We are only beginning to peel the layers off His creation. We will never know the answer to everything. That's why I don't know why the church I grew up in basically forced us to choose God or Science.
Then you don't really have a problem. Whether or not you buy macro - evolution or just see it as adaptation within species doesn't really affect the issue. While I said that evolution removes a lot of what was once considered evidence for god's existence, it doesn't remove the possibility of a god behind it all. Whatever science discovers, you can never really do away with that possibility.

I agree with you that the choice that some of the religious push -God or science - is invidious. If God - belief is right it has nothing to fear from the facts that science discovers. Just we shouldn't be to literal about the way the bible - writers saw things.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:00 PM
 
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See Adam and Eve were not the first humanoids type people on the earth, and the Flood of Noah ark never flooded the whole earth only the areas from the known world from the lands of modern nations Iraq to Turkey, and possibly beyond, but not the whole earth......... Adam and Eve were the chosen as the first people to be the children of God as God created them in the image of God which is spirit with substance, but they failed and lost this authority God was giving them , so God worked of it a brought Lord Jesus to replace this lost authority....... Evolution of the species is of a divine selection and not of the a natural ideas ...... See Creation of the seven day was not the solar day of seven rotations of the earth that God did this task but it took God billions of years to form life on the earth , where eventually God chose man to be His family, as man was created as a responsive for interaction ......See if you take these beginning literal then legalism can drive people away from God ...... I was born again in the spirit of Lord Jesus Christ and God does not condemn me for giving a understanding which will sound reasonable in a peaceful understanding ..... Like if I were to say literal understanding only and make a stand against unbelief in the direct scriptures, then Holy Spirit would say this is legalism ....... See for God we make a stand for the blessing of Christ and the teaching of the Gospel Jesus lead, but the rest of the Word of God is there to see the beginnings and the character of God ....
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:46 PM
 
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Simply put in evolution theology mankind does not need a redeemer. In Creation mankind is a fallen race separated by its Maker who needs a redeemer in which this redeemer is our Maker.

In evolution death brings mankind into the world.

In Creation mankind brings death into the world.

The two are opposing and antithetical views.

If one holds to a "theistic" evolution while not denying the fall of man and redemption through Jesus Christ alone, than I guess that's not a huge issue when talking salvation.

The problem; however, when our tether gets too far from the text, we end up with a different God. For example a God that uses theistic evolution is a god that evidently is not efficient in his design but needs multiple deaths of organisms over billions of years to get it right. This is not the God the Bible portrays.

It's pretty important to know who God is. He's revealed himself to us in his Word and Person Jesus Christ.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I'm sorry to ask such a controversial question but honestly, this board is the only place I can ask such a question and get good answers.


I asked this very question about 12 years ago in our church Bible group. The leader of the group put his hand up to me and said, "We don't talk about the E word." I was embarrassed and shut down. Here I am 12 years later asking the same question hoping I'll get some answers.

I have a few questions actually.

First, people say that Adam and Eve were the first people and we descended from them. However everyone and everything was killed in the floods. Therefore all mankind would have come from Noah and his family, right? So wouldn't we be descendants of Noah? Why do people always say Adam and Eve?

So from Noah and his family came people of all races with traits that allow them to live better in their environments (darker skin closer to the equator, Eskimos with slanted eyes that help them in cold harsh weather, lighter skinned people in colder climates, etc)
How is that NOT evolution? If all people came from Noah's family and those people became the races as we know today (African, Asian, Native American, Hispanic) how is that not evolution? Their physical traits evolved into something to better adapt to their environments right?

I had biology in college and honestly what we learned never negated Creation and God. My science teacher from grammar school who first taught us of evolution is a strong Christian. Jane Goodall who is a world expert in primates and anthropology is a Christian. Why are Christians often made to choose between evolution and creation. To me, evolution is a result of creation.

I guess my other question is, why do we believe that God created the earth but can't believe He created it to grow and change. Man has created Smart Phones. Tivo learns what the user likes and starts to record things that it "thinks" you'll like. Google makes its pages adapt to what you the reader usually searches. God can't make His creations adapt? I just don't understand why not.

I remember my pastor saying there is nothing in the Bible about evolution. Well, there is nothing that says there isn't evolution either. In fact, Creation is only ONE page! Doesn't it seem like we are getting the cliff notes version of what really happened? There are books about DNA and cell division but the story of the entire earth and all of its contents is only one page? It feels like God gave His people the story a parent would give a child.

Child- "Mom how did that cake get there?"
Mom answers, "I made it."
And God is our Father so that makes sense to me.

Sorry this is all over the place. The evolution thing really bothers me. I just think that the Lord in all His wisdom created everything to grow, change and adapt, which is all evolution is right?
I don't know why, but I'm attracted to evolution threads like a fly is attracted to turd.

Most everyone knows my stand on the subject, but I simply can't see a good reason why Christianity and Evolution can't coexist and not conflict with each other.

If there is a god of infinite intelligence and wisdom who made everything, he'd make it so that it works. You are absolutely right; life HAS to grow, change and adapt to survive over the long haul. God would certainly know that and would have set up an elegant system that naturally promoted life rather than create a world in stasis that had to be constantly micromanaged just to keep life going.

You don't have to abandon god to accept evolution. Hopefully that gives you a bit of peace.

Last edited by Chango; 06-12-2012 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Central Virginia
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Chango I agree. If we are to believe that God is the Almighty, then why wouldn't He create beings to change, evolve, adapt.
Someone told me that many Christians will accept adaptation within a species but not evolution from one species into another. Why? Who cares? To me the more science discovers, the more I'm impressed and respect our Lord. Just when I think He couldn't amaze me more, He does.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Central Virginia
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Quote:
For example a God that uses theistic evolution is a god that evidently is not efficient in his design but needs multiple deaths of organisms over billions of years to get it right. This is not the God the Bible portrays.
That is man's interpretation, to say that evolution means God didn't get it right. I don't see it that way at all. Is the changing of seasons God not getting the season right? Is the sun going down the moon coming up God not getting it right? We see these things change because they change on a daily or monthly basis. However evolution says that things changed over thousands of years. No man would see those changes because they happened so slowly over multiple lifetimes. Changes happening slowly doesn't mean they didn't happen. We just didn't see them happen. They came long before our time.

Honestly, while I appreciate the responses, I'm still not seeing an answer. Where did the different races of people come from if there is no evolution? A member of a pygmy tribe in Africa and a 6 foot tall blonde Swedish person are clearly both people but look completely different. Where did these different people come from?
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:14 AM
 
35,013 posts, read 9,057,473 times
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Those are good questions and i don't myself know the answer. What is clear so far is that you don't need to see the answers, whatever they are as a threat to God -belief, except of the most Bible- literalist kind -the kind that has more to do with a hatred of Darwinism than a love of God.

If you wanted you could perhaps pop over to R/P and open a thread on 'where did the various races come from', and let those who insist that it's evolutionary fight it out with those who trace them all to Noah's sons (or so his wife told him) and just keep a step back because you know it really isn't an issue for your God - belief, only for the Bible- literalists.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Central Virginia
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Arequipa, thank you. I will do that.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:25 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,898,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
That is man's interpretation, to say that evolution means God didn't get it right. I don't see it that way at all. Is the changing of seasons God not getting the season right? Is the sun going down the moon coming up God not getting it right? We see these things change because they change on a daily or monthly basis. However evolution says that things changed over thousands of years. No man would see those changes because they happened so slowly over multiple lifetimes. Changes happening slowly doesn't mean they didn't happen. We just didn't see them happen. They came long before our time.

It exactly means that God is not efficient in his design. If death, time, and randomness brought man into the world; that is very inefficient and a different God than the Bible portrays throughout. Adding a bunch of years doesn't help the impossibility of evolution. The very fact that assumptions are built into their model such as a constant of time measurement from the sun exposes Evolution as a Faith-based Theology.

Quote:
Honestly, while I appreciate the responses, I'm still not seeing an answer. Where did the different races of people come from if there is no evolution?
The Tower of Babel (Genesis 11). People are darker in Africa because of the skin pigment Melanin which helps protect them from the UV rays of the sun. We have different languages because YHWH God confounded their languages as we are a rebellious people who continually attempt to unite under the rule of man not God as we see right now with our G8 UN Secular World Order.

Evolution is not improbable. It is impossible. The reason why it is taught to children in schools because people in positions of authority want to believe we are evolving to escape accountability to a Creator and want to believe that they themselves can become a god while indoctrinating the most vulnerable into their Religion for social change. Just as any false teachers, they are paying scientists to tell them what they want to hear.

There is no evidence for evolution. Only what individuals think is evidence for evolution.

here's an experiment.

Take a book apart, scatter the pages throughout the yard, wait a couple years, and see if eventually comes back together over time.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:15 AM
 
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Right Mikelee81.

Not only that, but them thar clever single celled amoebas had to be clever enough to not just make one critter but had to have the cleverness enough to know to make two critters of different sexes to they could mate to produce more.

If it that don't beat all, them amoebas had to somehow create millions of different species, have 'em all climb out of the pond skum (wouldn't want them to drown) and each have a mate too.

I know, I know, we dumbos aint got no lick o' sense when it comes to these thangs!
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