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Old 06-15-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Location: US
26,439 posts, read 14,028,208 times
Reputation: 1604

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I'm sorry to ask such a controversial question but honestly, this board is the only place I can ask such a question and get good answers.


I asked this very question about 12 years ago in our church Bible group. The leader of the group put his hand up to me and said, "We don't talk about the E word." I was embarrassed and shut down. Here I am 12 years later asking the same question hoping I'll get some answers.

I have a few questions actually.

First, people say that Adam and Eve were the first people and we descended from them. However everyone and everything was killed in the floods. Therefore all mankind would have come from Noah and his family, right? So wouldn't we be descendants of Noah? Why do people always say Adam and Eve?

So from Noah and his family came people of all races with traits that allow them to live better in their environments (darker skin closer to the equator, Eskimos with slanted eyes that help them in cold harsh weather, lighter skinned people in colder climates, etc)
How is that NOT evolution? If all people came from Noah's family and those people became the races as we know today (African, Asian, Native American, Hispanic) how is that not evolution? Their physical traits evolved into something to better adapt to their environments right?

I had biology in college and honestly what we learned never negated Creation and God. My science teacher from grammar school who first taught us of evolution is a strong Christian. Jane Goodall who is a world expert in primates and anthropology is a Christian. Why are Christians often made to choose between evolution and creation. To me, evolution is a result of creation.

I guess my other question is, why do we believe that God created the earth but can't believe He created it to grow and change. Man has created Smart Phones. Tivo learns what the user likes and starts to record things that it "thinks" you'll like. Google makes its pages adapt to what you the reader usually searches. God can't make His creations adapt? I just don't understand why not.

I remember my pastor saying there is nothing in the Bible about evolution. Well, there is nothing that says there isn't evolution either. In fact, Creation is only ONE page! Doesn't it seem like we are getting the cliff notes version of what really happened? There are books about DNA and cell division but the story of the entire earth and all of its contents is only one page? It feels like God gave His people the story a parent would give a child.

Child- "Mom how did that cake get there?"
Mom answers, "I made it."
And God is our Father so that makes sense to me.

Sorry this is all over the place. The evolution thing really bothers me. I just think that the Lord in all His wisdom created everything to grow, change and adapt, which is all evolution is right?
I'd recommend the book Genesis by Dr. Henry Morris...It is a commentary on the bible from a scientific point of view of how certain things in the bible could have happened scientifically...BTW, American indians are not a seperate race, they are historically Asian, their DNA matches perfectly with the indigenous tribes of Siberia, which ones, I can't remember, but you could look it up if it interests you...
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:36 AM
 
862 posts, read 644,745 times
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The one poster who said that God and evolution are mutually exclusive. I don't agree. The laws of the universe were not invented by man. Man has slowly discovered what was already there. Micro-evolution seems to be sound and the evidence is compelling, but macro-evolution really requires even more faith than religion and so is still relegated to the term "theory". It's already proven that biological life can survive the vacuum, cold, and radiation of space. That was discovered during the moon missions. So could life have been seeded here? It's possible. But then where did it come from and was it created somewhere else? I don't think we will ever have a definitive answer to that. Until then, there is faith, a warm place, dear to one's heart.

God created the heavens, the land, and the sea, and all the natural laws that apply. So why can't we have a God that creates this beautiful place, creates the laws, and sets it in motion?

....and He saw that it was good.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:59 PM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,898,238 times
Reputation: 3724
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
The one poster who said that God and evolution are mutually exclusive. I don't agree. The laws of the universe were not invented by man. Man has slowly discovered what was already there. Micro-evolution seems to be sound and the evidence is compelling, but macro-evolution really requires even more faith than religion and so is still relegated to the term "theory". It's already proven that biological life can survive the vacuum, cold, and radiation of space. That was discovered during the moon missions. So could life have been seeded here? It's possible. But then where did it come from and was it created somewhere else? I don't think we will ever have a definitive answer to that. Until then, there is faith, a warm place, dear to one's heart.

God created the heavens, the land, and the sea, and all the natural laws that apply. So why can't we have a God that creates this beautiful place, creates the laws, and sets it in motion?

....and He saw that it was good.
He did create this beautiful place, create the laws, and set them in motion according to the Bible. The outline is given to us in the order it was done as well.

If one is going to use part of the bible such as "he saw that it was good", we need to use it all.

Natural Selection is not a force that creates. It is genetic mutation which selects from an already exiting gene pool which results in a loss of information not gain. It's observed to allow the peppered moth for instance to change from white to black for instance. It has not been observed to go from cat to human or whatever.

The Bible says God made Adam as a man.

Evolution says by death man came into the world. Creation says by man death came into the world.

They are two anti-thetical opposing irreconcilable views.

With evolution theology, death is the hero of the plot. In Creation, death is the enemy.

Last edited by Mikelee81; 06-15-2012 at 06:35 PM..
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:03 PM
 
35,002 posts, read 9,048,533 times
Reputation: 4822
This is wrong in perhaps all aspects. Change can add information or indeed lose it. Or just alter it. Change comes about through life, which changes all the time. You and I change, or the message changes and so does God, according to the Bible. The message to the Jews was supplanted by the message to the gentiles and that is explained as God not changing but just a new message was needed.

Evolution and life is not exclusive and information can be added or changed if you prefer, and if you want to say that it isn't possible without God, you can say so, but if you believe in God, then you are saying a lot to say that anything is impossible.

Amoebas cannot sit around a table and decide what to do as in Eusebius' South Park cartoon misrepresentation of evolution, but God could decide for them and do it, too. The evidence is overwhelming that, whatever the mechanism , it happened.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:57 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,597,718 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I'm sorry to ask such a controversial question but honestly, this board is the only place I can ask such a question and get good answers.


I asked this very question about 12 years ago in our church Bible group. The leader of the group put his hand up to me and said, "We don't talk about the E word." I was embarrassed and shut down. Here I am 12 years later asking the same question hoping I'll get some answers.

I have a few questions actually.

First, people say that Adam and Eve were the first people and we descended from them. However everyone and everything was killed in the floods. Therefore all mankind would have come from Noah and his family, right? So wouldn't we be descendants of Noah? Why do people always say Adam and Eve?

So from Noah and his family came people of all races with traits that allow them to live better in their environments (darker skin closer to the equator, Eskimos with slanted eyes that help them in cold harsh weather, lighter skinned people in colder climates, etc)
How is that NOT evolution? If all people came from Noah's family and those people became the races as we know today (African, Asian, Native American, Hispanic) how is that not evolution? Their physical traits evolved into something to better adapt to their environments right?

I had biology in college and honestly what we learned never negated Creation and God. My science teacher from grammar school who first taught us of evolution is a strong Christian. Jane Goodall who is a world expert in primates and anthropology is a Christian. Why are Christians often made to choose between evolution and creation. To me, evolution is a result of creation.

I guess my other question is, why do we believe that God created the earth but can't believe He created it to grow and change. Man has created Smart Phones. Tivo learns what the user likes and starts to record things that it "thinks" you'll like. Google makes its pages adapt to what you the reader usually searches. God can't make His creations adapt? I just don't understand why not.

I remember my pastor saying there is nothing in the Bible about evolution. Well, there is nothing that says there isn't evolution either. In fact, Creation is only ONE page! Doesn't it seem like we are getting the cliff notes version of what really happened? There are books about DNA and cell division but the story of the entire earth and all of its contents is only one page? It feels like God gave His people the story a parent would give a child.

Child- "Mom how did that cake get there?"
Mom answers, "I made it."
And God is our Father so that makes sense to me.

Sorry this is all over the place. The evolution thing really bothers me. I just think that the Lord in all His wisdom created everything to grow, change and adapt, which is all evolution is right?
I too think it's too bad your bible study teacher didn't at least try to help you understand. Now having said that let's look at this with some common sense.

First the words, "in the beginning" in the Hebrew reads, "in a beginning.'

Second in the Hebrew it doesn't say, "God created," it says "God fattened." What's the difference you might ask?

Fattened means to "fill up" [the heavens with stars, sun, moon, birds etc] and the earth with fish, animals, plants, etc. So the account is not the creation of the heavens/earth but the filling up of them.

Or in other words we don't know when the heavens/earth were created...how many 'years' went by, but we are given the account of when God filled them up.

Now as to ppl being descended from Adam/Eve. I have to say if they were actually the only 2 ppl on the earth than who is the "host of the earth" mentioned in Gen. 2:1?

My opinion is the 'other' races were included in this 'host' of ppl.

adam which means mankind [male/female created He them] and Adam Eth' Ha'Adam [the man adam]formed from the dust and Eve taken from Adam.

Now as to the flood and all ppl descending from Noah/family. If you read the account of the flood and the reason for it you will see the flood had to do with the giants/their offspring.

How do we know this? It tells us Noah was "perfect in his generations." This had to do with his pedigree or pure blood line.

BTW, there was one more eruption of giants/offspring that God had Gideon do away with by the "sword of the Lord."

So I believe the flood was local and so the other 'races' were not involved.

This makes more sense to me than the usual explanation of things based on man's ideas of what happened, etc etc.


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Old 06-15-2012, 08:36 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post

Amoebas cannot sit around a table and decide what to do as in Eusebius' South Park cartoon misrepresentation of evolution, but God could decide for them and do it, too. The evidence is overwhelming that, whatever the mechanism , it happened.
"The evidence"?

Please provide the evidence that every animal ever on this earth came from single celled amoebas.
Evidence, AREQUIPA, not logic, not philosophy, not "we believe" but actual undeniable evidence that will
stand in any court of law.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:54 AM
 
35,002 posts, read 9,048,533 times
Reputation: 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
"The evidence"?

Please provide the evidence that every animal ever on this earth came from single celled amoebas.
Evidence, AREQUIPA, not logic, not philosophy, not "we believe" but actual undeniable evidence that will
stand in any court of law.
I will answer this but I know you will simply dismiss it as wrong. The fossil evidence from simple collections of cells in pre - cambrian rocks in geological succession through the progression of forms over 200 million years. You know this well enough so I wonder that you bother to ask. There are also the DNA links, but they are usually explained away as showing the same manufacturer. There are morphological links, but you will simply say they don't mean anything.

You know what the evidence is, but you dismiss it and prefer to come up with this absurd cartoon of amoebas sitting round a conference table so as to plan forward strategy and you have repeated it time and again no matter how often you are told that it just makes you look either foolish or dishonest.
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Venice Italy
1,025 posts, read 1,051,389 times
Reputation: 486
The fundamental law of the system where we live in, the central point from which everything emerges,it is the substance principle, it is one root cause. it becomes essentially on the principle of the manifested universe and it is a mere illusion, as it remains a principle in the abstract space visible and invisible, without beginning or end, it is the reality because it includes everything and all things, the concept first in this system is latent in every atom of the universe, because it is the universe itself, the Universe is the periodical manifestation of this essence and absolute unknown.Everything in it is temporary, but real for all conscious beings who paradoxically become unreal.
If the Universe is in accelerated expansion, which means that there is a force opposed to gravity. Such a force could lead to the "cosmological constant" ventilated by Albert Einstein in 1915, which postulated different reasons. Einstein's equations showed that a static Universe could not be stable because it would collapse on itself under the action of gravity force
this reality is on contrary to the creation static idea, anyway at last we could say that the human mind is not able to get a reasonable answer, so the religious organizations have new seasons to live



Albert E. believed in God
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:44 AM
 
35,002 posts, read 9,048,533 times
Reputation: 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by miticoman View Post
The fundamental law of the system where we live in, the central point from which everything emerges,it is the substance principle, it is one root cause. it becomes essentially on the principle of the manifested universe and it is a mere illusion, as it remains a principle in the abstract space visible and invisible, without beginning or end, it is the reality because it includes everything and all things, the concept first in this system is latent in every atom of the universe, because it is the universe itself, the Universe is the periodical manifestation of this essence and absolute unknown.Everything in it is temporary, but real for all conscious beings who paradoxically become unreal.
If the Universe is in accelerated expansion, which means that there is a force opposed to gravity. Such a force could lead to the "cosmological constant" ventilated by Albert Einstein in 1915, which postulated different reasons. Einstein's equations showed that a static Universe could not be stable because it would collapse on itself under the action of gravity force
this reality is on contrary to the creation static idea, anyway at last we could say that the human mind is not able to get a reasonable answer, so the religious organizations have new seasons to live



Albert E. believed in God
On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from J. Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

Extract Wiki, underlining mine, epic Fail, yours.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:00 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I will answer this but I know you will simply dismiss it as wrong. The fossil evidence from simple collections of cells in pre - cambrian rocks in geological succession through the progression of forms over 200 million years. You know this well enough so I wonder that you bother to ask. There are also the DNA links, but they are usually explained away as showing the same manufacturer. There are morphological links, but you will simply say they don't mean anything.

You know what the evidence is, but you dismiss it and prefer to come up with this absurd cartoon of amoebas sitting round a conference table so as to plan forward strategy and you have repeated it time and again no matter how often you are told that it just makes you look either foolish or dishonest.
My dear boy, I asked for evidence that all the animals that have ever been on this earth came from single celled amoebas. Maybe you can provide a video of this actually happening? Maybe you can go to the amoebas and ask them how it happened? Maybe the amoebas left some written evidence that they started every form of life on this planet? Surely if they are smart enough to figure out all the life on this planet they are smart enough to leave some written evidence.

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE. All you have is your opinion and the opinions of your faith-based religion called evolution.

I was so amused by your scientists who claimed on t.v. that fish came from amoebas and these fish flopped out of the water (no kidding, they said that) and they grew arms and legs (quite a feet, pun intended, wouldn't you say?) but wait! They didn't say they only have about 48 hours to grow arms and legs so they could eat and drink on land. And they didn't say how they lost their gills to grow lungs. And then these "scientists" said these fish turned into chimpanzees. Really, I am not making this up. And then the tall grasses came and the chimps could not see above the grasses so to get over that nasty little problem the chimps grew taller and became human! Really, I'm not making this up. They had all these nifty little comic type movies to show it actually happening just like they said it did too! So clever those scientists. I did get a good laugh out of it though. Arequipa, you have been brainwashed, hoodwinked, lied to since you were born concerning evolution. So I don't blame you.
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