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Old 06-16-2012, 02:36 PM
 
10,164 posts, read 4,688,169 times
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Matthew 23:9
And call no man your Father ... - This does not, of course, forbid us to apply the term to our real father. Religion requires all proper honor to be shown to Him, Exo_20:12; Mat_15:4; Eph_6:1-3. But the word “father” also denotes “authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect.” In this sense it is used here. In this sense it belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people. Christian brethren are equal. Only God has supreme authority. He only has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience. The Jewish teachers affected that title because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to him.

 
Old 06-16-2012, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 1,420,720 times
Reputation: 242
[quote=Eusebius;24773465]Dear member of the white cane pole users, I answered your post. Remember what I posted about what Moses said?

RESPONSE:

As I recall, it had nothing to do about God raising someone from the dead to prove that he (they) were the messiah(es).

>>As to those Jews who were raised from the dead:
Mat 27:51-53 And lo! the curtain of the temple is rent in two from above to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks are rent, (52) and the tombs were opened. And many bodies of the reposing saints were roused, (53) and, coming out of the tombs after His rousing, they entered into the holy city and are disclosed to many."<<

>>First of all, Christ is the Firstfruit of vivification from the dead (1 Cor.15:22-28).
Secondly, the earthquake opened up some of the tombs of the righteous. They came to life after He came to life. They were not given immortality for they all died later.<<

RESPONSE:

No. They came to life after he died. Read all the words. They came out of the tombs after Jesus was raised from the dead.

Matt 27: 50 - 53 Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last.* 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many

>>Being raised from the dead does not prove they were Messiah's. Jesus, being given immortality and still being alive proves His Messiaship. They were not given immortality for they all died later.<<


RESPONSE:

How do you know that Jesus was given immortality and Lazarus and the many saints raised from the dead were not? Does it say thaqt in the Bible???

Moderator cut: deleted: rude response.
RESPONSE:

But he hasn't, and there is no proof that he ever will except in a legendary writing called the New Testament.

Last edited by june 7th; 06-17-2012 at 03:01 PM.. Reason: addition
 
Old 06-17-2012, 07:20 AM
 
2,227 posts, read 808,232 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
Revelation Writer posted:

>>Not every word written of Scripture is the infallible, inerrant Word 0f God to be obeyed.<<

RESPONSE:

Congratulations on your insight! Now the next logical question is how do we tell which are the Word of God and which are not?

Or does everyone get to pick the passages he personally considers inspired and reject those he does not?
~ So, people haven't been picking and choosing within the false doctrine of
'(ALL) scripture...' being the infallible inerrant Word 0f God???
 
Old 06-17-2012, 02:10 PM
 
10,164 posts, read 4,688,169 times
Reputation: 732
[quote=ancient warrior;24776660]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear member of the white cane pole users, I answered your post. Remember what I posted about what Moses said?

RESPONSE:

As I recall, it had nothing to do about God raising someone from the dead to prove that he (they) were the messiah(es).

>>As to those Jews who were raised from the dead:
Mat 27:51-53 And lo! the curtain of the temple is rent in two from above to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks are rent, (52) and the tombs were opened. And many bodies of the reposing saints were roused, (53) and, coming out of the tombs after His rousing, they entered into the holy city and are disclosed to many."<<

>>First of all, Christ is the Firstfruit of vivification from the dead (1 Cor.15:22-28).
Secondly, the earthquake opened up some of the tombs of the righteous. They came to life after He came to life. They were not given immortality for they all died later.<<

RESPONSE:

No. They came to life after he died. Read all the words. They came out of the tombs after Jesus was raised from the dead.

Matt 27: 50 - 53 Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last.* 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many

>>Being raised from the dead does not prove they were Messiah's. Jesus, being given immortality and still being alive proves His Messiaship. They were not given immortality for they all died later.<<


RESPONSE:

How do you know that Jesus was given immortality and Lazarus and the many saints raised from the dead were not? Does it say thaqt in the Bible???

>>you will shut your freakin mouth when He does.<<

RESPONSE:

But he hasn't, and there is no proof that he ever will except in a legendary writing called the New Testament.
The earthquake opened the tombs when Jesus died. After Jesus was roused from the dead the saints whose tombs were opened were roused and they too came out of their tombs. The increddible thing is you want to argue WHEN this occurred rather than just believe it occurred.

Lazarus was roused out of death by Jesus and he later died. Being roused out of death does not confer immortality upon such a one. All the disciples died long ago too.
Jesus on the other hand is still alive.

Getting back to prophecies about Jesus which you say He had to fulfill to be the Messiah I will re-quote what Moses said:

Deu_18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

This proves my point.

The prophetic statement did not occur in Moses' lifetime yet all Jews hold Moses to be a great prophet.
 
Old 06-17-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,463,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
Why are you guys arguing with Eusebius? He will twist basically any argument to try to prove his point.
One can't really discuss anything with someone that claims that Noah had 'freeze-dried food' aboard his boat!!
 
Old 06-17-2012, 03:44 PM
 
10,164 posts, read 4,688,169 times
Reputation: 732
Cute, Rafius.
 
Old 06-17-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 1,420,720 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Moderator cut: Rude comments are deleted and infractable. Remember what I posted about what Moses said?

As to those Jews who were raised from the dead:
Mat 27:51-53 And lo! the curtain of the temple is rent in two from above to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks are rent, (52) and the tombs were opened. And many bodies of the reposing saints were roused, (53) and, coming out of the tombs after His rousing, they entered into the holy city and are disclosed to many."

First of all, Christ is the Firstfruit of vivification from the dead (1 Cor.15:22-28).
Secondly, the earthquake opened up some of the tombs of the righteous. They came to life after He came to life. They were not given immortality for they all died later.

Being raised from the dead does not prove they were Messiah's. Jesus, being given immortality and still being alive proves His Messiaship. He will return and you will shut your freakin mouth when He does.
RESPONSE:

No. You have to go by the plain meaning of what the words say. Not what you would want them to say.

Matthew 27:50-53

"Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many"

Jesus was NOT the first raised. He was raised three days after the saints were raised!

Last edited by ancient warrior; 06-17-2012 at 05:40 PM.. Reason: typo
 
Old 06-17-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 1,420,720 times
Reputation: 242
[quote=Eusebius;24785021][quote=ancient warrior;24776660]

>>The earthquake opened the tombs when Jesus died. After Jesus was roused from the dead the saints whose tombs were opened were roused and they too came out of their tombs. The increddible thing is you want to argue WHEN this occurred rather than just believe it occurred.<<

RESPONSE:

I am stating what is written not what I believe. The saints were raised on Good Friday. Jesus was raised on Easter Sunday, three days later. Just like the words say. Pure and simple.

>>Lazarus was roused out of death by Jesus and he later died. Being roused out of death does not confer immortality upon such a one. All the disciples died long ago too.
Jesus on the other hand is still alive.<<

RESPONSE: No. Lazarus was raised by God. And how do you know that Lazarus died after being raised from the dead? How do you know that Jesus didn't? Scripture is completely silent on that point! What you are making is what is known as an assertion without evidence. It's just what you want to believe.



>>Getting back to prophecies about Jesus which you say He had to fulfill to be the Messiah I will re-quote what Moses said:

Deu_18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

This proves my point.

The prophetic statement did not occur in Moses' lifetime yet all Jews hold Moses to be a great prophet<<

RESPONSE:

You quotation has nothing to do with the matter at hand. What "point" are you trying to claim it proves? Certainly not the Jesus was raised before the saints.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 06-17-2012 at 05:51 PM.. Reason: typo
 
Old 06-17-2012, 06:50 PM
 
10,164 posts, read 4,688,169 times
Reputation: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

No. You have to go by the plain meaning of what the words say. Not what you would want them to say.

Matthew 27:50-53

"Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many"

Jesus was NOT the first raised. He was raised three days after the saints were raised!
Mat 27:52 and the tombs were opened. And many bodies of the reposing saints were roused,
Mat 27:53 and, coming out of the tombs after His rousing, they entered into the holy city and are disclosed to many."

The above is to be understood that "after His rousing, many bodies of the reposing saints were roused and they entered into the holy city and are disclosed to many.

It is not saying that right after their tombs were opened they went into Jerusalem. Notice the period after the word "opened"? The next sentence begins with "And". Your version makes it sound like they were raised right after the tombs were opened. Why would they wait in the tombs for three days with the doors of their tombs opened? It don't make sense your way. My way is logical and correct.
 
Old 06-17-2012, 06:58 PM
 
10,164 posts, read 4,688,169 times
Reputation: 732
[quote=ancient warrior;24787416][quote=Eusebius;24785021]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post

>>The earthquake opened the tombs when Jesus died. After Jesus was roused from the dead the saints whose tombs were opened were roused and they too came out of their tombs. The increddible thing is you want to argue WHEN this occurred rather than just believe it occurred.<<

RESPONSE:

I am stating what is written not what I believe. The saints were raised on Good Friday. Jesus was raised on Easter Sunday, three days later. Just like the words say. Pure and simple.

>>Lazarus was roused out of death by Jesus and he later died. Being roused out of death does not confer immortality upon such a one. All the disciples died long ago too.
Jesus on the other hand is still alive.<<

RESPONSE: No. Lazarus was raised by God. And how do you know that Lazarus died after being raised from the dead? How do you know that Jesus didn't? Scripture is completely silent on that point! What you are making is what is known as an assertion without evidence. It's just what you want to believe.
Lazarus nor those raised had immortality. The daughter Peter raised from the dead did not have immortality. The Jewish chief priests sought to murder Lazarus after he was raised from the dead. They probably succeeded. If not, he died a natural death. Lazarus was raised by Jesus Christ. How do I know Jesus didn't die after being roused out of death and ascended into heaven? I is not as dumb az yoo think I is. Paul met Him on the road to Damascus.

"It is just what you want to believe." No, it is just what you want to believe.


Quote:
>>Getting back to prophecies about Jesus which you say He had to fulfill to be the Messiah I will re-quote what Moses said:

Deu_18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

This proves my point.

The prophetic statement did not occur in Moses' lifetime yet all Jews hold Moses to be a great prophet<<

RESPONSE:

You quotation has nothing to do with the matter at hand. What "point" are you trying to claim it proves? Certainly not the Jesus was raised before the saints.
It has everything to do with the prophecies concerning Jesus Christ, the true Messiah. You can't see the point? Honestly?
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