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LK 10:17-20 "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through your name. And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in Heaven."
N 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." The Devil is cast out for the believer but he still has dominion over the wicked.
The place which is often referred to as 'hell' is real and is called in Scripture 'Gehenna', 'the lake of fire' and other descriptive terms.
I mentioned nothing about rebuking or binding Satan. The Christian is never said to take the offensive against Satan, but to be on the defensive.
The New Testament Scriptures are clear on the reality of the lake of fire and that it will be the permanent abode of the unbeliever. To deny its existence is to ignore the plain revelation of Scripture.
The term "Hell" is still a man made name and is never spoke of in the covenants, maybe it is considered as the "Lake of Fire, but the "Lake of Fire" is just that, the "Lake of Fire." Now, I say this in no offense toward or directed at you by no means.
As per rebuking and binding Satan or his minion of most unclean spirits, I mentioned that on my own accord to add to my statement of Satan not being bound to anywhere except this world, with the exception of given authority through the Holy Spirit. We do not need to take an offensive position against Satan, as he is already a defeated adversary, and HaMashiach Yeshua defeated death, not Satan when He finished God our Fathers (Elohim Avinu) work. We must stand firm against him and against all his uncleanliness, ungodliness and deception, while protecting our souls through our own free will choices.
....Shalom averi
Last edited by Brother Michael; 06-13-2012 at 08:30 PM..
When true choices are in front of entities with free will. They will divide. The nature of the entities and the degree of free will given will define where does the division shall occur.
Angels are born to serve God, they are born to know God. The degree of their free will is not as full as humans. That's why their division is allowed to occurred to heaven.
Man on the other hand are granted with full blown free will, and their main roles are not designed as a servant of God. Their division is supposed to happen in a neutral ground like earth, where the influence of God and that of Satan co-exist, you need to be sided to one of them during your life span in this 'neutral ground'.
Satan is an angel. One of his characteristic is that he'd like to complain a lot, he's an accuser, and will be an accuser on the Judgment Day. God sometimes may choose to listen to what he said. God doesn't need him to be presence in heaven to listen to what he'd like to say. He doesn't need his presence in heaven in order to drop him a message or two. But basically, I don't that God is still keeping a constant communication with him.
Satan is some where in Hades, after being driven out of heaven, he's in a space where he can have a period of time to cast influence to this world either directly or indirectly through his horde of fallen angels and evil spirits.
LK 10:17-20 "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through your name. And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in Heaven."
N 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." The Devil is cast out for the believer but he still has dominion over the wicked.
Do you mean "....from the believer" or like it is "....out for the believer"?
Do you mean "....from the believer" or like it is "....out for the believer"?
Well, I surpose one might take it both ways. Some have had the devil cast out of them and filled with the Spirit so they could follow Christ even as He did in His ministry. But in the other sense he is cast out from our presence as in, "I give you power over all the power of the enemy."
Well, I surpose one might take it both ways. Some have had the devil cast out of them and filled with the Spirit so they could follow Christ even as He did in His ministry. But in the other sense he is cast out from our presence as in, "I give you power over all the power of the enemy."
Got you, and totally agree with you here. I have been working in deliverance ministry through the Spirit for years and it works both ways by far....hahaha.
The term "Hell" is still a man made name and is never spoke of in the covenants, maybe it is considered as the "Lake of Fire, but the "Lake of Fire" is just that, the "Lake of Fire." Now, I say this in no offense toward or directed at you by no means.
As per rebuking and binding Satan or his minion of most unclean spirits, I mentioned that on my own accord to add to my statement of Satan not being bound to anywhere except this world, with the exception of given authority through the Holy Spirit. We do not need to take an offensive position against Satan, as he is already a defeated adversary, and HaMashiach Yeshua defeated death, not Satan when He finished God our Fathers (Elohim Avinu) work. We must stand firm against him and against all his uncleanliness, ungodliness and deception, while protecting our souls through our own free will choices.
....Shalom averi
All terminology used in human language is man made. There is actually nothing wrong with using the word 'Hell' in the English language in common usage as a designation for the final abode of the unbeliever. But I usually use the term 'lake of fire.'
When true choices are in front of entities with free will. They will divide. The nature of the entities and the degree of free will given will define where does the division shall occur.
Angels are born to serve God, they are born to know God. The degree of their free will is not as full as humans. That's why their division is allowed to occurred to heaven.
Man on the other hand are granted with full blown free will, and their main role is not designed as a servant of God. Their division is supposed to happen in a neutral ground like earth, where the influence of God and that of Satan co-exist, you need to be sided to one of them during your life span in this 'neutral ground'.
Satan is an angel. One of his characteristic is that he'd like to complain a lot, he's an accuser, and will be an accuser on the Judgment Day. God sometimes may choose to listen to what he said. God doesn't need him to be present in heaven to listen to what he'd like to say. He doesn't need his presence in heaven in order to drop him a message or two. He doesn't even need his presence in heaven to allow a message to be conveyed in front of a group of angels. But basically, I don't think that God is still keeping a constant communication with him.
Satan is some where in Hades, after being driven out of heaven, he's in a space where he can have a period of time to cast influence to this world either directly or indirectly through his horde of fallen angels and evil spirits.
The word 'Hades' is a Greek translation of Sheol. The word 'hell' is a translation from either German or English (feel free to correct me). It is a word to describe a tormenting place such as a burning hell. However, in certain translation, it is also used interchangeably to Hades (a Greek concept) or Sheol (a Hebrew concept).
Actually, angels were all created. They are not born. And angels did indeed have full blown volition, though their eternal destiny is now set. The elect angels will always be elect and the fallen angels will always be fallen.
Because angelic volition was involved in Satan's rebellion, man was given volition in order to resolve the angelic conflict. The volition of man, who is a lower creation than the angels, to choose to come to Christ in response to the gospel demonstates to the angels that the angels who rebelled are without excuse for that rebellion. [When a person in the church-age believes in Jesus Christ for eternal life he is entered into union with Christ and at that point becomes positionally higher than the angels.]
Satan is not in Hades. Until Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation Satan is the ruler of this world and still has access to heaven at times.
When Christ returns, Satan will be locked up in the pit for the duration of the Millennium and then temporarily released at the end of the Millennium to deceive the nations. He will then be thrown into the lake of fire forever. (Rev 20:1-10).
Not meaning to intrude on an excellent exchange between Mike and some members well-versed in Judaism beliefs (I hope it continues--I'm learning a lot) but the thrust of my OP was a little more simplistic; Mike says that satan is allowed into the presence of God at times. This is what confuses me. We've been taught that God is so absolutely holy that not the least smidgen of evil can be allowed in His presence. His holy nature just cannot stand it. Yet here is the most evil creature in the universe--evil pouring out of him like a sieve the size of the Milky Way---more evil wrapped up in that one entity than all the sin man has ever committed. And yet----he can get into God's presence, or rather God's holiness is not defiled by his presence, while the tiniest of sins--a little white lie--can bar a man from God's presence, and if not repented of can send him into fiery torment for all eternity. That's what I was taught as a Catholic and later when I was a member of the Fundamentalist Corporate machine. Now logically something is not right with this picture. Someone please clear this up for me.
Actually, angels were all created. They are not born. And angels did indeed have full blown volition, though their eternal destiny is now set. The elect angels will always be elect and the fallen angels will always be fallen.
Because angelic volition was involved in Satan's rebellion, man was given volition in order to resolve the angelic conflict. The volition of man, who is a lower creation than the angels, to choose to come to Christ in response to the gospel demonstates to the angels that the angels who rebelled are without excuse for that rebellion. [When a person in the church-age believes in Jesus Christ for eternal life he is entered into union with Christ and at that point becomes positionally higher than the angels.]
Satan is not in Hades. Until Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation Satan is the ruler of this world and still has access to heaven at times.
When Christ returns, Satan will be locked up in the pit for the duration of the Millennium and then temporarily released at the end of the Millennium to deceive the nations. He will then be thrown into the lake of fire forever. (Rev 20:1-10).
I think, but I say I think, that is what Hawkins was meaning, he just used the wrong wording per say. I think what he meant is that they were created but just used the wording "born" as we are all acceptable to say here in this world. Angels were not literally born as per say us, but yes, they were created by the Spirit as all creation was, including us.
Yes, Satan & his most unclean spirits have authority and complete domain over this world, but as stated before, he only has access to the heavens of God our Father through the sole permission of the Holy Spirit and under escourt of archangels of God our Father under the protection of the Holy Spirit. Just wanted to make the correction that he does have access at all times, but not at his own will that is.
BTW, very well spoken words of wisdom and knowledge here as well Mike. I do like to read the words of wisdom and knowledge that emit from you. You make it worth reading per say...hahaha
....Shalom haveri
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