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Old 06-24-2012, 07:06 PM
 
303 posts, read 429,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
When Jesus explained The Parable of the Weeds ....his last statement about it was "He who has ears, let him hear." So when it came to The Parable of the Net where Jesus said:

Lucky for us the good news is the deaf will hear!
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:05 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,037,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papabear3322 View Post
Luminous is it so far of a stretch to think that the entity that created all things could at any moment send an impulse to make a fish jump to answer a question. It was a small something that came to mind ,for some small miracles are easier to believe than large ones. Would it have been better to say that I had laid hands and healed the sick with prayer. As far as what I personally believe that is an extremely complicated answer, better served perhaps outside the venue of christianity. What I believe comes afer a lifetime of searching through it all. As far as quoting holy scripture I have met satanist's who could qoute the bible better than most christians. I am a simple pathfinder who wades through the confusion of man and seeks GOD, The Creator, The Great Spirit. To seek out the words of those he has sent and to myself strive to follow them. I do NOT believe in group salvation only you can save yourself. I dont see the need to join any congregation or organization as I generally get into enough trouble by myself. I wouldn't want to be the shepard who led the flock astray.
its less of a stretch to think it happened naturally because the fish was hungry.

large miracles are easier to prove, which is why they are harder to believe when there is no evidence.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:42 PM
 
130 posts, read 185,060 times
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K I'll work on the mountain thing... I have been searching for the scrolls Christ read and am learning hebrew so that I may read them for myself.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:09 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,605,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
One of the luxuries of being retired is having the time to pursue studying the Bible. After many weeks of intense study on the topics of Universal redemption and annihilation I must conclude that Jesus said or inferred on more occasions than not that most of us would be lost--that is, that only a few would make it through the narrow door, which is, of course, Jesus Himself. I know He said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself" but that doesn't make up for the two times He said "Many will take the broad road to destruction", "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord...", "The Good Shepherd Gives His Life (only) for His Sheep", "Unless you repent you will perish", etc. I think the word, "draw" implies maybe "attract" but certainly not draw as in irresistibly pull without power to resist. The bottom line is that Jesus warned more about missing the boat, then He did spreading sugar-coated niceties that everything was fine; that He had it all under control and we had nothing to worry about. In fact, we do have plenty to worry about and He didn't mince words letting us know on innumerable occasions.

The good news though, is that even if only a few find the way to heaven through the narrow door, we won't be suffering the torments of hell in the meantime. While we have debated innumerable times here about the three doctrines of eternal destiny, the overwhelming weight in terms of sheer numbers of verses falls to eternal destruction for the wicked. The Scriptures seem to heavily support soul-sleep until the final resurrection. It will be like precisely one second after those who are saved close their eyes in death they will awaken to the resurrection with new immortal bodies. The lost will later awaken in the same way to be thrown into the fire that destroys utterly. That is what the Scriptures indicate to me. If other feel differently I'd be interested in hearing your POV.
Well we are told not to worry if we are in Christ, but we should worry about being in Christ making sure the Spirit is indeed within us. Without the Spirit of Christ we are none his. Without the Passover Lamb who taken away the sins of the World Jesus Christ the Wrath of God abides on us.

I believe it's clear that the narrow road and single gate to life is receiving God's free gift of Justification by Faith in Jesus Christ. Those that have not submitted themselves to the Lord not receiving his Spirit have stumbled at that stumbling stone - the stone the builders rejected.

I think it's clear no one will enter life (thus escape eternal damnation) by their own efforts, but by receiving God's free gift of life freely forgiving the debt we could not pay (entering the door). No one will be able to boast about how well they did to "get" into Heaven. No one will be able to say they did anything to save themselves from Perdition. We will be able to praise him that freely gave us what we did not deserve - eternal life.

So finding the door is extremely easy. In fact this whole life is about finding the door and God wants us to find the door! I've come to the conclusion mankind's greatest problem is our Pride. Our pride keeps us from submission and authority to God asking forgiveness of sins through Christ.

The reason why so many are on the path to destruction is because the Gospel offends. The Word is sharp as a sword and pierces the heart.

My sins put a man to death on a wooden cross. I deserve eternal Hell, and am entirely helpless to help myself while entirely dependent upon a Man for my Salvation. The Man was our Creator and we are to Worship him (a man). This is offensive to many and requires a broken heart.

People want to believe that they are basically pretty good and deserve heaven. They don't want to be dependent upon anything but themselves being "self sufficient". They want to worship and serve self. They want to believe God will be fine with them worshiping him in their own way. They don't want to accept that by one man the entire human race will be judged. They don't like the gospel message of Grace. They want to believe God will respect their person because of their humanistic good works.

There's a lot in the Scriptures that offends mankind, so they refuse to submit to it's authority in Jesus Christ.

I know because I've been there.

You are right to reject Universalism because it doesn't exist.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:51 AM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,142,501 times
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Mikelee81

You said the Gospel offends, i have never in my life known anyone to be offended by good news of any nature,apart from those who have the spirit of the Pharisee which is pride and hypocrisy .

Jesus said the prostitutes and tax collectors were entering into the kingdom because of the good news before the scribes and Pharisees, purely on the basis that the wonderful good news offended their religion.

Universalism is at the very core of the good news and when the church accepts it, it will turn the world upside.

But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14*Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15*Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I AM generous?’.

God is generous and it offends those who beleve they are deserving , and believe those they look down upon as undeserving should not receive what they beleve they deserved.

Last edited by pcamps; 06-25-2012 at 08:04 AM..
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:01 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,900,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Are you annihilationist, Richard? That question sounds weird for some reason.
I was speaking about ur UR hellere...
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: NC
14,705 posts, read 17,039,261 times
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Quote:
People want to believe that they are basically pretty good and deserve heaven. They don't want to be dependent upon anything but themselves being "self sufficient". They want to worship and serve self. They want to believe God will be fine with them worshiping him in their own way. They don't want to accept that by one man the entire human race will be judged. They don't like the gospel message of Grace. They want to believe God will respect their person because of their humanistic good works.

This isn't what the belief in the eventual restoration/reconciliation/salvation of all mankind is. None of us deserve heaven. It isn't even about heaven . It is about being restored to the Father, the Creator, Our God through Jesus Christ our Lord We are completely dependent on God and realize that God will accomplish whatever He purposes. I believe that the message magnifies the dependency on God because our salvation is from Him, and not from ourselves. It is about worshipping God and realizing that all will one day worship God, serve God, instead of serving self. The whole human race will be judged, thank God that we will all be judged by the righteous Judge who is wise, just, merciful, and love. It is about God's grace, His mercy, and is not about humanistic good works. We are to do good because of what Jesus has done for us, but it is out of His mercy, love, and grace that He saves us. This glorifies Him and His good work. God bless and peace.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-25-2012 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:22 PM
 
303 posts, read 429,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
This isn't what the belief in the eventual restoration/reconciliation/salvation of all mankind is. None of us deserve heaven. It isn't even about heaven. It is about being restored to the Father, the Creator, Our God through Jesus Christ our Lord We are completely dependent on God and realize that God will accomplish whatever He purposes. I believe that the message magnifies the dependency on God because our salvation is from Him, and not from ourselves. It is about worshipping God and realizing that all will one day worship God, serve God, instead of serving self. The whole human race will be judged, thank God that we will all be judged by the righteous Judge who is wise, just, merciful, and love. It is about God's grace, His mercy, and is not about humanistic good works. We are to do good because of what Jesus has done for us, but it is out of His mercy, love, and grace that He saves us. This glorifies Him and His good work. God bless and peace.
I agree, The story of the adulterous woman came to mind. Christ could have thrown the stone for he was without sin but instead he said to the woman he condemns her not then he commanded her to go and sin no more(the word went out of his mouth and will not return void). He is a merciful judge. Her accusers used the law against her, Christ used love!

John 8:1-11
Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 547,139 times
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When angels departing from God, they are the devils like Satan. So what will happen to Satan? The Bible never said that an angel can die.

Now get back to humans. Are they of any good after leaving God.


Angels, they are supposed to be immortal, will turn themselves to the devils after death. They will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Humans after departing from God, they will turn to the same devils. And will be burnt to the same fire. They are no better that the devil who are previously the angels.

So if God chooses to burn the fallen angels like Satan forever, what make you think that He won't burn devils who are originally humans?

Perhaps "we will be humans all the times even after departing from God" is a wrong assumption.



Matthew 25:
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: NC
14,705 posts, read 17,039,261 times
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Matthew 25
41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; (YLT)


I believe that there is a higher purpose for the fire. When fire burns, it changes something into something else.

"To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute sense. When fire consumes a log in your fireplace it does not destroy any of the elements within the log, it merely changes their form. Combustion is the process by which chemicals combine to form new chemicals. For example: a tree might be cut down, sawed into fire wood, and burned. When the wood is burning the heat causes the chemicals of which the wood is composed to vaporize, mixing with the oxygen in the air to form new chemicals, including water and the gas carbon dioxide. So what was formerly a tree is no longer identified as the form of a tree, but the substance thereof is now simply changed into a different form and exists in its new form within the atmosphere as water, carbon dioxide, etc. Thus, to bum, means to change. P. Eby

Our God is a consuming fire.

God bless and peace.
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