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True Christian Universalism is not a new belief. It did not begin in the late 1700's and early 1800's as is assumed by some people. Rather, its principles are as old as the Christian records. It was prophecied in the Old Testament and revealed in the New Testament. It is the faith that was declared by Jesus, the Apostles, and the Christian church in it's earliest days. It claims the New Testament as the basis of its doctrines. It cites the Gospels, the Apostolic History and the Epistles, Christ, and his first ministers, as authority for its pretensions.
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Of the six theological schools known to exist from the second to the fourth centuries, four of them believed and taught the concepts of Christian Universalism, one taught annihilation, and only one taught eternal torment, the school of Rome. You find members of almost every Christian communion, Greek, Romish, Lutheran, Church of England, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Friends, etc., differing widely in many respects, but all agreeing in this one Divine truth, that God loves all men, and will have them to be saved; that Christ gave himself a ransom for all, and that all will ultimately be brought to holiness and happiness.
All who believe in the restoration of all to God do not all believe that same things. Some believe in free will, others do not, for example. Some believe in the Trinity and some do not. Some believe in the immortal soul and some do not and so on, just as those who may believe in eternal hell/annihilation do not agree on each and everything.
Romans 8: 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, [i]in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now
*hope= elpis = expectation
All you have to do is look at all of the denominations that we have and see disunity.
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-02-2012 at 07:37 AM..
Mark 16: 11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
They have not been annihilated but are dead awaiting judgment.
Death is to be abolished one day. Please see 1 Corinthians 15 and
Isaiah 25: 6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.
9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Also please see Colossians 1
15 [w]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For [x] by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [y] is before all things, and in Him all things [z]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For [aa]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [ab]fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [ac]heaven.
and this includes the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.
One day every knee shall bow and tongue shall confess Him, even swear allegiance to Him. And they will no longer be wicked.
Rejoice and be glad in it
God bless and peace.
I never said the ppl of S &G have been annihilated, I was speaking of the cities themselves, not the ppl that lived in them, as examples of irreversible judgment. That's why I said: turned to ashes never to be a city again.
Yes, I know death is to be abolished 'one day.' That Day in 1 Corin. 15/Isa. 25 is speaking of Messiah's return at the 7th trump. It's about resurrection. The believer's hope.
Neither passage you quotes have anything to do with UR. Again you proof text passages to fit you beliefs.
And as a far as the word 'all' you need to do a study on whether it always mean all exclusive. If you do this you will see that the word is usually qualified in the scriptures.
As here:Mark 1:5 "And there went out to him ALL the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem and were ALL baptized in the river Jordan"John 8:2 "And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down and taught them."
Romans 5:17-18 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) (18) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
The first "all men" [v.18] does mean every individual, because there's no qualifier in the context.
However the second "all men" [v.18] is qualified by the phrase "those who receive" ]v, 17.
Or in other words the second "all" clearly means "all of a group;" not 'every individual.'
Now in this group of passages the word "ALL," doesn't mean every person without exception, but "all types of men".
Acts 22:15 "For thou (Paul) shalt be a witness unto ALL men of what thou hast seen or heard."
Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of ALL men for my name's sake."
John 3:26 "And they came unto John and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou bearest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and ALL men came to him."
ALL can also mean "some of every kind" or "some from every nation:"
Matthew 13:47-50 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, (48) "which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. (49) "So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, (50) "and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And is regards to this:"We are all God's children." This is speaking of believers; not all men without exception.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, (5) having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Romans 9:6-8 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, (7) nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called." (8) That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Also, there's a qualifier on the word "world." It doesn't necessarily mean every individual on the planet:
John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, "You see that you are accomplishing nothing. Look, the world has gone after Him!" [this would then include the Pharisees]
These verses mean certain individuals of the world:
John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. (35) But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
You also need to understand man has a free will and if UR is correct than salvation would depend on the right use of the sinner's free will instead of man's salvation depending on God's Will.
Hi Mshipmate, thanks for sharing your view of Sodom and Gomorrah. The scriptures speak of these cities being restored one day. I believe that scriptures like the one in Colossians 1 make is clear it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself and I believe that the passage in 1 Cor. 15 speaks of the subjection of all to God so that God may be all in all. It refers to 3 groups of persons being made alive in Jesus Christ. All can be some in some scriptures, but not in all scriptures which is made evident by the context. Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world, not just a few individuals. I don't believe in free will but believe that God works all things according to the counsel of His own will. Have a good day. God bless and peace.
Romans 8: 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, [i]in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now
"The Scripture evidence for universalism begins with the old Hebrew writings. This is key. Too often we rush into the New Testament to find our belief system, forgetting that Old Testament Judaism was the cradle of our faith. We should not begin reading the gospels with our minds a blank slate. It is imperative that we consider what went before, what the people’s hopes and convictions were when Jesus arrived on the scene.
The Old Testament pulsates with a universalist expectation. It conveys the hope of huge multitudes — often called “all flesh” — coming to know Yahweh. The beginning of such hope was a promise to Abraham that “in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” (Gen. 12:3) It is a promise that God repeats over and over." Steve Jones
“All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.” (Psalm 22: 27)
“All your works shall give thanks to you, O Lord ... You open your hand, satisfying the desire of every living thing. The Lord is just in all his ways and kind in all his doings. ... My mouth will speak the praise of the Lord, and all flesh will bless his holy name for the ages of the ages (lit).” (Psalm 145: 10, 16-17, 21)
“And on this mountain He will swallow up the [a] covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is [b]stretched over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord [c]God will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the Lord has spoken.
9 And it will be said in that day,
“Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the Lord for whom we have waited;
Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation (Isaiah 25)
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-02-2012 at 03:36 PM..
Some find it offensive that God's unconditional love shines even on those that seem most unlovable, like the cruel dictators that commit mass murder, the child abusers that corrupt the innocent, the Satanists who sacrifice their own children to demons. Some cringe at the thought of God having mercy on such abominable sinners, they want to see such people suffer for all eternity. The Truth of the gospel is there is no sinner that has gone beyond the reach of God's love.
Christians should wholeheartedly desire that all people be saved, for our desires should be identical to those of God, and that is His desire. Pride may be the reason many oppose the idea that God will show mercy to even the filthiest of sinners. For pride desires self to be elevated above others. It is pride to think of oneself more worthy of God's blessing than the "greater" sinners of the world. Some may find it offensive to think of themselves equally unworthy of grace as the greatest of sinners, they may also find offensive the idea that they will share the future perfect world with those they see as less worthy. In their pride they desire to be elevated far above such people.
Hi Mshipmate, thanks for sharing your view of Sodom and Gomorrah. The scriptures speak of these cities being restored one day. I believe that scriptures like the one in Colossians 1 make is clear it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself and I believe that the passage in 1 Cor. 15 speaks of the subjection of all to God so that God may be all in all. It refers to 3 groups of persons being made alive in Jesus Christ. All can be some in some scriptures, but not in all scriptures which is made evident by the context. Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world, not just a few individuals. I don't believe in free will but believe that God works all things according to the counsel of His own will. Have a good day. God bless and peace.
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The scriptures speak of these cities being restored one day.
Where does the Scripture speak of S & G being restored?
Mshipmate, it is found in Ezekiel 16 which speaks of God's condemnation and punishment of Israel, whose sins were described as greater than Sodom and her daughters.
As I live,” declares the Lord God, “Sodom, your sister and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. 49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not [ab]help the poor and needy. 50 Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them [ac]when I saw it. 51 Furthermore, Samaria did not commit half of your sins, for you have multiplied your abominations more than they. Thus you have made your sisters appear righteous by all your abominations which you have committed. 52 Also bear your disgrace in that you have [ad]made judgment favorable for your sisters. Because of your sins in which you acted more abominably than they, they are more in the right than you. Yes, be also ashamed and bear your disgrace, in that you made your sisters appear righteous.
53 “Nevertheless, I will restore their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, and [ae]along with them [af]your own captivity, 54 in order that you may bear your humiliation and feel ashamed for all that you have done when you become a consolation to them. 55 Your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, [ag]will return to their former state, and you with your daughters will also return to your former state.
The phrase “bring again their captivity” comes from a Hebrew phrase including the words shuwb (Strong’s 7725) and shebuwth (Strong’s 7622). This phrase is described as follows in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: “The phrase...occurs frequently, usually with God as its subject, and means to bring an end to captivity or imprisonment for debt, and thus to turn one’s fortune for the better. Israel’s fortunes will be restored(i.e., Israel will have material prosperity and forgiveness of sins) when the Lord brings the Israelites back from captivity to their homeland (e.g. Ezekiel 39:25–29)” (Vol. II, Geoffrey B. Bromiley, published Wm. B.Eerdmans Publishing, 1995, pg. 335, article “Fortunes”).
What does this prophecy mean when it says that Sodom and her daughters will return to their former estate? The Greek Septuagint translation of Ezekiel 16:55 throws light upon this phrase. It uses the word apokathistemi (Strong’s 600). The Word Study Dictionary, has this to say about this Greek word: “from apo (575), back again, and kathistemi (2525), to constitute. To restore, e.g., to health or soundness....to put back into a former estate, restore, reform (p. 224) The word translated daughters in the Septuagint comes from the Greek word thugater
(Strong’s 2364). According to Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon, when thugater is used “with the name of a
place, city or region, it denotes collectively all its inhabitants and citizens” (page 292).
29 but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;' (YLT)
29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin" -- (CLT)
John 8:
51 verily, verily, I say to you, If any one may keep my word, death he may not see -- to the age.'
52 The Jews, therefore, said to him, `Now we have known that thou hast a demon; Abraham did die, and the prophets, and thou dost say, If any one may keep my word, he shall not taste of death -- to the age! (YLT)
51 Verily, Verily, I am saying to you, If ever anyone should be keeping My word, he should under no circumstances be beholding death for the eon."
52 The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets, and you are saying, 'If ever anyone should be keeping my word, he should under no circumstances be tasting death for the eon.' (CLT)
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-02-2012 at 11:01 PM..
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