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This is why it is good to have a good dictionary and concordance.
The Young's Literal has the word translated as "forever" in this passage to be "ad", meaning "continuity" in its concordance. It is the same word that is used in Habakkuk 3:6 and is translated as antiquity.
The same word is used in this passage.
Habakkuk 3:
6 He hath stood, and He measureth earth, He hath seen, and He shaketh off nations, And scatter themselves do mountains of antiquity, Bowed have the hills of old, The ways of old [are] His. (YLT)
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting (KJV)
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-26-2012 at 07:15 AM..
I truly do not believe there is one ... for even in the YLT 1 Chronicals 28:9 has to be ignored by the UR crowd. (or at least shout down with worthless arguments)
1 Chronicles 28:9 (YLT)
And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever.
"if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever."
twin.spin, the word "OLAM" is not used in 1 Chronicles 28:9 . . .
9 And you, Solomon my son, know
the Elohim of your fathers,
and serve Him wholeheartedly and
with a delighting soul, for Yahweh inquires
into all hearts, and He understands every form
of devisings. If you seek after Him, He shall be found
by you; but if you forsake Him, He shall cast you off for the future. (Concordant Literal)
I would not consider this a worthless argument, would you?
So, yes, if Solomon forsook God, God would cast him off for the future. But it can't be eternally because God is going to eventually save all mankind.
twin.spin, the word "OLAM" is not used in 1 Chronicles 28:9 . . .
9 And you, Solomon my son, know
the Elohim of your fathers,
and serve Him wholeheartedly and
with a delighting soul, for Yahweh inquires
into all hearts, and He understands every form
of devisings. If you seek after Him, He shall be found
by you; but if you forsake Him, He shall cast you off for the future. (Concordant Literal)
I would not consider this a worthless argument, would you?
So, yes, if Solomon forsook God, God would cast him off for the future. But it can't be eternally because God is going to eventually save all mankind.
Absolutly ... since the YLT words something you can't get around, to hunt down something else is in fact a worthless argument or desperation.
Absolutly ... since the YLT words something you can't get around, to hunt down something else is in fact a worthless argument or desperation.
twin.spin, it is a fact that many bibles are poorly translated, especially when it comes to words meaning literally "forever".
Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish threedays and threenights.
Jonah 2
1 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God.
2 He said:
“In my distress I called to the Lord,
and he answered me.
...
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever.
...
10 And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dryland.
twin.spin, I would like to see you acknowledge this truth. Here we see Jonah was in the fish 3 days and 3 nights. While inside he prayed and said he was barred in "forever". And then shortly thereafter he was vomited onto dry land. So much for "forever"!!!
Can you not see this? This is blatant misunderstanding and ignorance of the word "forever" which is perpetuated to suggest God lets people be tortured endlessly.
At the very least, in this one case in Jonah, 'forever' DOES NOT and CANNOT mean 'without end'.
The concordant literal translation is a very good one. Harder to read than the KJV. Its method was to assign one english word for 1 greek word. Hence we read hell in the KJV, but that word comes from 4 different greek words. They all mean different things in greek, so common sense says they should mean different things in the english. But the KJV translators took it upon themselves to translate it according to their beliefs
The concordant literal translation is a very good one. Harder to read than the KJV. Its method was to assign one english word for 1 greek word. Hence we read hell in the KJV, but that word comes from 4 different greek words. They all mean different things in greek, so common sense says they should mean different things in the english. But the KJV translators took it upon themselves to translate it according to their beliefs
Or... the KJV translators did so because they also knew the context upon which it being refered to and was forming their beliefs to the word and not what universalists do frequently, which is hop-scotching verse to verse \ translation to translation in order to avoid the unavoidable.
twin.spin, it is a fact that many bibles are poorly translated, especially when it comes to words meaning literally "forever".
Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish threedays and threenights.
Jonah 2
1 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God.
2 He said:
“In my distress I called to the Lord,
and he answered me.
...
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever.
...
10 And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dryland.
twin.spin, I would like to see you acknowledge this truth. Here we see Jonah was in the fish 3 days and 3 nights. While inside he prayed and said he was barred in "forever". And then shortly thereafter he was vomited onto dry land. So much for "forever"!!!
Can you not see this? This is blatant misunderstanding and ignorance of the word "forever" which is perpetuated to suggest God lets people be tortured endlessly.
At the very least, in this one case in Jonah, 'forever' DOES NOT and CANNOT mean 'without end'.
I'm sure glad that you think you were able to find at least one supposed clear cut example to hang your hat on.
Too bad though there are more than just one time where 'forever' DOES and CAN mean 'without end', but that's not the point you're interested in....isn't.
I'm sure glad that you think you were able to find at least one supposed clear cut example to hang your hat on.
Too bad though there are more than just one time where 'forever' DOES and CAN mean 'without end', but that's not the point you're interested in....isn't.
Scripture testifies that the aions have a beginning.
Hebrews 1:2
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds/aions.
The aions were MADE.
1 Corinthians 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world/aion unto our glory:
BEFORE the aion.
2 Timothy 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world/aionion began,
BEFORE the aionion BEGAN.
Scripture testifies that the aions have an end.
Hebrews 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world/aion hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
The aion ENDS
1 Corinthians 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world/aion are come.
The aion ENDS
Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world/aion?
The aion ENDS.
Therefore to believe they are without end is a clear indication that you are not going by the scriptures actually proclaim.
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