Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Advertisements
I think there are several reasons:
1. Because the Fall was such a horrible event, an all-loving, all-good God could not have 'planned' it.
2. Because they see it as attributing responsibility to the Fall, and all the suffering it caused, to God i.e. blaming God for it's' ills.
3. Following on from that, so humans have to shoulder guilt. To justify the terrible doctrine of original sin and eternal torment.
4. Because if it was God's plan, God planned for the majority of humanity to be Lost. If they accept the 'Fall', in their eyes they accept the ultimate sovereignty of God's Plan and thus 'Universalism.'
5. It doesn't acknowledge the 'Free Will' of Man.
So who is ultimately to blame for the 'Fall'?
Isn't it Satan/Lucifer/The Serpent, the wily, canny serpent who tricked innocent, naive man? I mean did Adam and Eve actually knowing right and wrong before they ate from the tree of good and evil? If not, how could God expect them to know what they were doing was wrong?
If Adam and Eve were made in the IMAGE of God, why were they made flawed? God wouldn't tell a lie, or disobey, even though he has nobody to disobey or be accountable to.
What do you think of the mythology that Satan led 1/3 of the angels in rebellion, and turned bad? Where did the seed of sin - the sin of pride - that sprouted to rebellion of God even BEGIN? I mean if God's creation was perfect it couldn't just have self-corrupted, now could it?
Free will must have involved giving man the POTENTIAL to 'do bad.'
On one hand one talks about God being sovereign, but then there's the tree of good and evil. Did Evil even exist before the Creation? Isn't Evil by definition being separated from God?
Is God Himself therefore bound by Objective Good and Evil?
man wants to take credit for something. to give credit to God alone, strips man of being the god he wants to be. God said it plainly that he put enimity between us and the serpent.
God had to test ALL of his creatures to find out who was truly worthy of his kingdom and had his love in their hearts. God had to weed out the wheat from the tares. He had to see who would turn on him when given the chance and opportunity. That's why at one point angels had free will. God let the angels feel and do what they wanted to do. Satan (one of the most beloved angels) freely choose to become arrogant in his position with God and freely choose to try to overthrow him. The angels who followed him freely chose to follow him in his ways. Thus, they created "evil" and became it. God created Hell in the center of the Earth as a punishment for them. And they were banished there eternally. The angels that were left passed the test. They were truly loving and were worthy of him and his kingdom. They had no malice or evil in their hearts even when presented with the opportunity. That was the test.
God was going to create humans and he knew he HAD to test us the very same way. That is why he let Satan seduce Eve in the garden. Alot of people continually try to make God the enemy and accuse him of purposefully putting human beings in a no-win situation to sin. Not really. You need to understand Eve was a person like you and I. She FREELY chose to listen to the snake EVEN THOUGH she had the knowledge of what God told her. She FREELY chose to take a bite of the golden apple. Nobody made her or forced her. She CHOOSE that. And Adam chose to do the same. Thus, sin was created in the world. That was the test, that was the their choice, and the result was sin. So the test has been on-going ever since. He has to know who is there for him and worthy of him. Who is worthy of the kingdom of Heaven?? Surely not a wicked human being. That is why he sent his son to die on the cross so that he could make atonement to God for our sins so that we could see Heaven. The test after the flood was simply that. Accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior and trying to live out a life pleasing to God and bringing others to the knowledge and trying to save them. Those who do not pass the test are the ones who fall away from the faith, follow other Gods, fall into sin and never repent, and etc. They end up in Hell where Satan and the fallen angels went when they turned against God. Their hearts were not for God or close to God. And that's the test of every human being on this planet.
This is not your Earth. This is God's Earth. This is God's galaxy and universe. Humanity refuses to understand that HE makes the rules. So what he has commanded and announced is what is so. That is why so many people see him as the enemy rather than the true enemy Satan. It is sad. But you need to have faith in Christ, the fear of God, and a heart for God, to see Heaven. Too many people are more into questioning God and his ways rather than accepting him and trying to life according to his decrees. They become prideful in their ways (just like Satan was) and trust in their education and science and research for answers. Pretty soon, they lost their way and headed down the wide path. That's apart of the test. They FREELY choose this. You need to have a loving heart for God and the fear of God to make it to Heaven. Keep his words in your heart and remember his promise. After you die, you WILL go to Heaven and live eternally in his kingdom. His kingdom is what is known by humanity as paradise. It is the TRUE paradise. Don't miss it for the world.
I believe that all is out of God and that He had and has a purpose for everything that happened. It isn't about blaming God but God realizing that God is the author of the plan. He Himself says "I create good and evil". This does not mean that He is evil but that it has a part to play in the plan. Just like the writer of a script may have elements of good and bad in the script. This does not mean that he or she is evi. So God takes responsibility. He is omniscient so what He knew what He was doing and why He was doing it. I believe that man has a self will and is responsible for what he or she does within the confines of God's greater sovereign will. Someone once said that He is like the captain of a ship which has a destination that we will all end up on, that being Him. We must all go towards His destination although we have the abilility to move around on the ship. I don't see how any one can believe in eternal hell/annihilation and believe in the omniscience of a God of love. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-09-2012 at 10:18 AM..
God had to test ALL of his creatures to find out who was truly worthy of his kingdom and had his love in their hearts.
God was going to create humans and he knew he HAD to test us the very same way. That is why he let Satan seduce Eve in the garden. And that's the test of every human being on this planet.
This is not your Earth. This is God's Earth. This is God's galaxy and universe. Humanity refuses to understand that HE makes the rules. So what he has commanded and announced is what is so. That is why so many people see him as the enemy rather than the true enemy Satan. It is sad. But you need to have faith in Christ, the fear of God, and a heart for God, to see Heaven. Too many people are more into questioning God and his ways rather than accepting him and trying to life according to his decrees. They become prideful in their ways (just like Satan was) and trust in their education and science and research for answers. Pretty soon, they lost their way and headed down the wide path. That's apart of the test. They FREELY choose this. You need to have a loving heart for God and the fear of God to make it to Heaven. Keep his words in your heart and remember his promise. After you die, you WILL go to Heaven and live eternally in his kingdom. His kingdom is what is known by humanity as paradise. It is the TRUE paradise. Don't miss it for the world.
I would take a few exceptions to several comments
God "had" to do no such thing (test his creatures). God's plan of salvation is not about showing oneself worthy. Jesus didn't have one plan and Satan had another where God chose Jesus' over Satan's because Jesus' had agency involved.
The plan is "be perfect\be holy"... not become it by showing oneself worthy through a series of tests. ["be' is in the present tense]
Scripture states that Jesus saved us by doing everything for us. It emphasizes not so much his role as teacher or Exemplar, but his role as mankind's substitute.
This is seen in the many passages that describe what he did for us. (That little phrase "for us" is one of the most comforting phrases in all of Scripture!) Scripture tells us that not only did he suffer all of God's punishment for us, ( Isaiah 53:5) but that he also fulfilled all of God's law perfectly for us. (Romans 5:19)
He did it all. He did not leave anything for us to do. Scripture reveals to us that God gave us salvation itself, not a plan of salvation.
1. Because the Fall was such a horrible event, an all-loving, all-good God could not have 'planned' it.
2. Because they see it as attributing responsibility to the Fall, and all the suffering it caused, to God i.e. blaming God for it's' ills.
3. Following on from that, so humans have to shoulder guilt. To justify the terrible doctrine of original sin and eternal torment.
4. Because if it was God's plan, God planned for the majority of humanity to be Lost. If they accept the 'Fall', in their eyes they accept the ultimate sovereignty of God's Plan and thus 'Universalism.'
5. It doesn't acknowledge the 'Free Will' of Man.
So who is ultimately to blame for the 'Fall'?
Isn't it Satan/Lucifer/The Serpent, the wily, canny serpent who tricked innocent, naive man? I mean did Adam and Eve actually knowing right and wrong before they ate from the tree of good and evil? If not, how could God expect them to know what they were doing was wrong?
If Adam and Eve were made in the IMAGE of God, why were they made flawed? God wouldn't tell a lie, or disobey, even though he has nobody to disobey or be accountable to.
What do you think of the mythology that Satan led 1/3 of the angels in rebellion, and turned bad? Where did the seed of sin - the sin of pride - that sprouted to rebellion of God even BEGIN? I mean if God's creation was perfect it couldn't just have self-corrupted, now could it?
Free will must have involved giving man the POTENTIAL to 'do bad.'
On one hand one talks about God being sovereign, but then there's the tree of good and evil. Did Evil even exist before the Creation? Isn't Evil by definition being separated from God?
Is God Himself therefore bound by Objective Good and Evil?
Satan is responsible and so is human for wanting to know more than what God determined he should.
God created all the dark spirit, like the demons and fallen angels and all the spirits of the flesh realm for the goodness of God and They listened to God for a thousands of years with their help in developing life on the earth ...... So then God chose man to be God children , God used Adam to prove this man as an acceptable child who God could interact with .. But the dark spirits had already corrupted their existences and went on to corrupt the creation of God plans for man ..... As the dark spirits lost love and all honor and seen God as a user , so when Man was chosen the dark spirit rejected the plan of God ...... See the devil and the demons and fallen angels were rejected by God ,.... But God had given them limited power over flesh , which God honors to this day .... But Jesus has a new plan and the devil and those who follow the devil at their departure from life will not be in that plan
That was also my thought ... Sometimes a thread starts-out with so many baseless assumptions of what God will/will not do ..."If He really is good", that there is really no place to get any traction. For one thing, who says that "most Christians aren't willing to consider that the Fall was part of God's plan??" Almost every Christian I know clearly recognizes and acknowledges that God is the author, creator and source of all things!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
