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Old 07-16-2012, 01:47 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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If eternal torment were true then why did James say this:


"My brethren, if anyone among you should be led astray from the way of the truth, and someone should be
turning him back, let him know that he who turns back a sinner out of the deception of his way WILL BE
SAVING HIS SOUL FROM DEATH and will be covering a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

Why didn't he just say: "Will be saving his soul from eternal torment"?

 
Old 07-16-2012, 01:58 PM
 
15,010 posts, read 7,534,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If eternal torment were true then why did James say this:


"My brethren, if anyone among you should be led astray from the way of the truth, and someone should be
turning him back, let him know that he who turns back a sinner out of the deception of his way WILL BE
SAVING HIS SOUL FROM DEATH and will be covering a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

Why didn't he just say: "Will be saving his soul from eternal torment"?
I can tell you that when I believed in ET, I always read phrases like "soul from death", "second death". etc, as euphemisms for eternal torment. It's just part and parcel of reading the bible through the lens of the ET belief.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,568,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I can tell you that when I believed in ET, I always read phrases like "soul from death", "second death". etc, as euphemisms for eternal torment. It's just part and parcel of reading the bible through the lens of the ET belief.
Yes, once the ET lens is ON, it is pretty hard to understand any warning or exhortation in the scriptures outside of that frame. It is a very domineering dogma because it is so extremely brutally threatening. Makes one think that's the only way God can get any results is to act like a typical earthly tyrant. A crying shame that it is such a widely held fear/belief. And funny thing, even though it is a widely held belief, it has no power to keep people from sinning - look at the violence/guns/rapes/ wars Americans inflict on each other and other nations.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If eternal torment were true then why did James say this:


"My brethren, if anyone among you should be led astray from the way of the truth, and someone should be
turning him back, let him know that he who turns back a sinner out of the deception of his way WILL BE
SAVING HIS SOUL FROM DEATH and will be covering a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

Why didn't he just say: "Will be saving his soul from eternal torment"?
...exactly.

There is no eternal torment for those who die having lived a sinner, out of the will of GOD...only death to that soul...as in perish...as in thrown into the Lake of Fire and burned up instantly...this fire is eternal and never extinguishes...

...as in annihilation.



May God Bless you and continue to give His truth. Amen.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:22 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
And funny thing, even though it is a widely held belief, it has no power to keep people from sinning - look at the violence/guns/rapes/ wars Americans inflict on each other and other nations.
You left out knives, poisons, ropes for lynching, poisoned darts, arrows, spears, clubs, kindness. (never been killed with kindness?). Using car as lethal weapon, etc. Guns don't kill, people kill.

But I get your excellent point. ET rarely ever keeps people in check against their propensity to sin.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:24 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...exactly.

There is no eternal torment for those who die having lived a sinner, out of the will of GOD...only death to that soul...as in perish...as in thrown into the Lake of Fire and burned up instantly...this fire is eternal and never extinguishes...

...as in annihilation.



May God Bless you and continue to give His truth. Amen.
Dear Verna there is some question as to the eternalness of the lake of fire. The Bible says it is for the ages of the ages which are the final two ages and says it is death and that death will be abolished.

But I do like your idea of annihilation much better than conscious torment.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 878,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I can tell you that when I believed in ET, I always read phrases like "soul from death", "second death". etc, as euphemisms for eternal torment. It's just part and parcel of reading the bible through the lens of the ET belief.
ditto
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,239 posts, read 9,998,349 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If eternal torment were true then why did James say this:


"My brethren, if anyone among you should be led astray from the way of the truth, and someone should be
turning him back, let him know that he who turns back a sinner out of the deception of his way WILL BE
SAVING HIS SOUL FROM DEATH and will be covering a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

Why didn't he just say: "Will be saving his soul from eternal torment"?

You could use the same logic to ask: 'Why did Jesus simply say, "I have come that you may have life" --- instead of, "I have come that you may have eternal life"?? Seems like pretty weak logic. Our best bet with scripture is to go with what it says, and not with what it doesn't say. The Word says, "The wages of sin are death" .... NOT, "the wages of sin are temporary death"

In any case, I know from other listings, you are pretty hard-core UR, while you know that I'm pretty hard core 'Biblean or Fundamentalist' or whatever other euphemism seems to get attached to those who believe the Bible as written.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear Verna there is some question as to the eternalness of the lake of fire. The Bible says it is for the ages of the ages which are the final two ages and says it is death and that death will be abolished.

But I do like your idea of annihilation much better than conscious torment.
...no Eusebius...there is no question at all about the eternalness of the eternal fire...it is Scripture...look it up....

...."the ages of the ages which are the final two ages of the ages that are only two of the ages after one other age proir"...blah...blah...blah......o.k.... .whatever....you can have all your ages upon ages...we can agree, can we not, that it is for a very....very...very...very...very....very....very. ....very....
LLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGG time.



...God Bless.
 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:45 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
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Annihilation is merciful.
Eternal torment is merciless.

Is God merciless or merciful?
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