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Everybody a scholar with Ephesians 2:8 but what about Ephesians 2:9-10 ?
Since there are works to doand works not to do, what are they ?
Works not to do :
Circumcision
Natural high priest
Animal offerings
Ordinances of the old law
Works to do :
Be water baptised in a pool----John 3:5.
Believe there is 1 upstairs in heaven only----John 8:24.
Practice Sabbath observance today----Hebrews 4. Correct people with the bible----James 5:20. Segregate with believers only----2 Cor. 6:14-17.
Be content with the prosperity you have----1 Timothy 6.
Realize Christianity is more then confidence and optimistic thinking-----John 5:39. Know the brethren with all the bible-----1 Thess. 5:12. Repent to obtain grace----Romans 6:1. Dress in Christian attire -------1 Peter 3:3. Have Christian parties-----1 Peter 4:1-4.
Be wholehearted with all the bible----Matthew 4:4. Know studying will give you the knowledge of God's will----2 Timothy 2:15. Don't be a know it all with God's will-----1 Cor. 8:2. Don't boast in the wisdom of man to know God's will----Isaiah 64:6. Don't speak in tongues without church order------ALL of 1 Cor. 14. Don't call tongues the baptism of the Holy Spirit-----Romans 11:29. Don't have a rebellion movement for women in the church----1 Cor. 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2. Don't ordain yourself a pastor-----Romans 13:1. Don't be independent of church government leaders----Romans 13:1. Don't marry everybody saying they a Christian----Romans 7:2-3. Make all the bible a bible class-----2 Timothy 3:16. Don't say the old law is evil----John 1:17.
Winning an argument is not the goal.
Educating ignorant minds is not the goal. Uniting with 100% bible believers is the goal------Psalms 133:1.
All scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is TO us or ABOUT us. You are applying scriptures that were to others and trying to apply them to the Church or Age of Grace. Everything prior to about the middle of Acts was to the Nation of Israel and not to us. From about the middle of Acts and for sure starting in Romans and ending in Philemon we are reading what OUR Apostle was given for us today. Hebrews thru Revelations is for the Nation of Israel after the time of the Gentiles has ended.
All scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is TO us or ABOUT us. You are applying scriptures that were to others and trying to apply them to the Church or Age of Grace. Everything prior to about the middle of Acts was to the Nation of Israel and not to us. From about the middle of Acts and for sure starting in Romans and ending in Philemon we are reading what OUR Apostle was given for us today. Hebrews thru Revelations is for the Nation of Israel after the time of the Gentiles has ended.
Ummm, I was following you for the first two sentences until you took a hard left turn into... well I'm not sure where.
Ummm, I was following you for the first two sentences until you took a hard left turn into... well I'm not sure where.
You must "Rightly Divide God's Word". Once you understand what I said to you you will have a much better grasp of scripture. You cannot apply things from "Times past" to today and you cannot apply things from "The Ages to Come" to today. That's all I am saying. Plus I pointed out which scriptures apply to which times. You need to focus on the "But Now" as Paul call's it.
Eph 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Here Paul is reminding us Gentiles that once we were "without Christ" because we were not part of Israel. This is the time covered in the OT and the Gospels until Paul is called in Act's. Actually until the mystery was reviled to Paul. You may recall he had to go to the 12 and have a meeting where Peter remembered that God had sent him to one gentile family some time ago. So this NEW MESSAGE that Paul is preaching must be true, so they sent him on his way to preach his Gospel to the Gentiles and they (the 12) continued to preach to the nation of Israel.
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Paul here explains how the Law has been "broken down" so that we Gentiles could join the Jews and become one.
Jesus himself even spoke of how Israel and the Jews would be trodden down until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Those day's did not start until Jesus taught Paul the Mystery.
But we also know from scripture that the times of the Gentiles will come to an end, and the temple will be rebuilt and Israel shall resume on their time line as promised. Right now they are on hold for Our time. The time of Grace.
Everybody a scholar with Ephesians 2:8 but what about Ephesians 2:9-10 ?
Since there are works to doand works not to do, what are they ?
Works not to do :
Circumcision
Natural high priest
Animal offerings
Ordinances of the old law
Works to do :
Be water baptised in a pool----John 3:5.
Believe there is 1 upstairs in heaven only----John 8:24.
Practice Sabbath observance today----Hebrews 4. Correct people with the bible----James 5:20. Segregate with believers only----2 Cor. 6:14-17.
Be content with the prosperity you have----1 Timothy 6.
Realize Christianity is more then confidence and optimistic thinking-----John 5:39. Know the brethren with all the bible-----1 Thess. 5:12. Repent to obtain grace----Romans 6:1. Dress in Christian attire -------1 Peter 3:3. Have Christian parties-----1 Peter 4:1-4.
Be wholehearted with all the bible----Matthew 4:4. Know studying will give you the knowledge of God's will----2 Timothy 2:15. Don't be a know it all with God's will-----1 Cor. 8:2. Don't boast in the wisdom of man to know God's will----Isaiah 64:6. Don't speak in tongues without church order------ALL of 1 Cor. 14. Don't call tongues the baptism of the Holy Spirit-----Romans 11:29. Don't have a rebellion movement for women in the church----1 Cor. 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2. Don't ordain yourself a pastor-----Romans 13:1. Don't be independent of church government leaders----Romans 13:1. Don't marry everybody saying they a Christian----Romans 7:2-3. Make all the bible a bible class-----2 Timothy 3:16. Don't say the old law is evil----John 1:17.
Winning an argument is not the goal.
Educating ignorant minds is not the goal. Uniting with 100% bible believers is the goal------Psalms 133:1.
Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
You must "Rightly Divide God's Word". Once you understand what I said to you you will have a much better grasp of scripture. You cannot apply things from "Times past" to today and you cannot apply things from "The Ages to Come" to today. That's all I am saying. Plus I pointed out which scriptures apply to which times. You need to focus on the "But Now" as Paul call's it.
"Rightly dividing God's word" does not mean drawing arbitrary lines at Acts 14, and between Philemon and Hebrews. I understood what you said, just not why - and your Ephesians passage is not any sort of proof for your Bible-chopping.
Every time I think I've heard every sort of strange or unorthodox teaching, I find myself continually surprised.
I actually believe to some degree what you are saying, but you take it a couple of extra steps and draw conclusions that are far out there.
"Rightly dividing God's word" does not mean drawing arbitrary lines at Acts 14, and between Philemon and Hebrews. I understood what you said, just not why - and your Ephesians passage is not any sort of proof for your Bible-chopping.
Every time I think I've heard every sort of strange or unorthodox teaching, I find myself continually surprised.
I actually believe to some degree what you are saying, but you take it a couple of extra steps and draw conclusions that are far out there.
The lines are God's and you can either accept them or not. I have nothing to do with it.
I find it odd that you have not heard this before since it is such a widely held view of Dispensantionsalism. Very common among Christians who realize that Paul teaches he was given the "Mystery" and that Gentiles can now stand along with the Jews on equal ground before God.
The lines are God's and you can either accept them or not. I have nothing to do with it.
I find it odd that you have not heard this before since it is such a widely held view of Dispensantionsalism. Very common among Christians who realize that Paul teaches he was given the "Mystery" and that Gentiles can now stand along with the Jews on equal ground before God.
Actually, I am fairly familiar with Dispensationalism, and the idea that we're supposed to take Hebrews, James, 1/2 Peter, 1/2/3 John and Jude and treat them as being intended for an audience in the Millennial Kingdom is such a minority viewpoint that I hadn't actually come across it (though now that I think about it, I have heard of an Acts 2 vs mid-Acts debate). Even across a diverse set of Scofield, Chafer, Walvoord, Ryrie, Blaising, Bock, etc. no one holds to what you teach. But maybe that's because I am more familiar with Classical, Traditional, and Progressive Dispensationalism than all sorts of flavors of the "Ultra" variety which I have little use for.
But hey - if you want to inflate things and call it "widely held", be my guest - but don't expect me to take that too seriously.
One of the hits I got from googling was also a KJV-only person - talk about double trouble!
Edit: Looking on Wikipedia. Would you agree with this statement from there? "Within the United States, advocates often refer to themselves as members of the "Grace Movement",[10] and affiliate with the Grace Gospel Fellowship, a church association, and its Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids, Michigan."
Last edited by snowdenscold; 07-23-2012 at 09:07 PM..
Actually, I am fairly familiar with Dispensationalism, and the idea that we're supposed to take Hebrews, James, 1/2 Peter, 1/2/3 John and Jude and treat them as being intended for an audience in the Millennial Kingdom is such a minority viewpoint that I hadn't actually come across it (though now that I think about it, I have heard of an Acts 2 vs mid-Acts debate). Even across a diverse set of Scofield, Chafer, Walvoord, Ryrie, Blaising, Bock, etc. no one holds to what you teach. But maybe that's because I am more familiar with Classical, Traditional, and Progressive Dispensationalism than all sorts of flavors of the "Ultra" variety which I have little use for.
But hey - if you want to inflate things and call it "widely held", be my guest - but don't expect me to take that too seriously.
One of the hits I got from googling was also a KJV-only person - talk about double trouble!
Edit: Looking on Wikipedia. Would you agree with this statement from there? "Within the United States, advocates often refer to themselves as members of the "Grace Movement",[10] and affiliate with the Grace Gospel Fellowship, a church association, and its Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids, Michigan."
My church nor I am affiliated with Grace Gospel Fellowship. I and my church are more mainstream Southern Baptist. Most Southern Baptist churches hold to the time of the Jews and it's Law is on hold during the time of Grace and that in the end time Israel will be restored to it's position as before.
I have been mostly in Baptist church's all my life. Most SBC but I have been in a Missionary Baptist once which held the same basic ideas. As far as I know most all Baptist hold to the same view on the subject. I realize that Baptist are a small portion of the Christian world. Our county of less than 15,000 has over 30 of them.
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