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Old 07-23-2012, 11:12 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,141,502 times
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The Third Commandment
Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy
------- what does it mean ---------
We should fear and love God that we do not despise
preaching and His Word, but hold it sacred and
gladly hear and learn it.

How does Luther, therefore, explain the Third Commandment

How do we despise preaching and his Word?

A: When we diregard or reject the Word of God or use it negligently or carelessly
scripture verses: John 8:47, Luke 10:16, Ecclesiastes 5:1
Ecclesiastes 5:1
Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. Go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, who do not know that they do wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------
Why should why we not despise the Word of God, but rather hold it sacred?

A: It's God's Word, and God would thereby save us.
scripture verses: 1 Thes 2:13, James 1:21
James 1:21
humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

1 Thes 2:13
when you received the word of God, which you heard from us,
you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God

--------------------------------------
What, therefore, should be our attitude toward the Word of God?

A: We should gladly hear and learn it
scripture verses: Psalms 122:1, Psalms 26:8, Luke 11:28, Colosians 3:16, James 1:22
Psalms 122:1
I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the Lord.

Luke 11:28
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
----------------------------------------
What meaning does the Old Testament Sabbath have for us New Testament Christians ?

A: The Old Testament Sabbath was a shadow of the true Sabbath, which is given through Christ
scripture verse: Colossians 2:17
Colossians 2:17
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ
--------------------------------------------
How does Christ give us the true Sabbath ?

A: Christ gives us the true Sabbath, not by mere outward rest on any particular day, but through his word
scripture verses: Galations 4:10-21, Matthew 11:28-29
Galations 4:10-21 (summerized)
Sabbath rest is not through the observance of a particular day, but through the gospel
"Those people are zealous to win you over (back to the observance of a particular day) , but for no good"
Those who want to be under the law will not inheret salvation

Matthew 11:28-29
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
------------------------------------------------

Why then do we not keep the Sabbath-day of the Old Testament ?

A: In witness of our Christian liberty from the yoke of slavery of the law and God's installment of the new covenant
scripture verses: Galations 5:1, Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15
Jeremiah 31:31
The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant.."

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenantnew,” he has made the first one obsolete;

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance

Galations 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galations 4:21-31 (summerized)
Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

the women represent two covenants.
  • One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
    • Hagar stands for Mount Sinai (the giving of the law)she is in slavery with her children
  • the other covenant, the free woman
    • (Paul quotes Isaiah 54:1)
"what does the Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son,
for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”








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Old 07-23-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Florida -
8,751 posts, read 10,778,845 times
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As you pointed out in Gal 4:10+, I believe that "keeping the Sabbath" is more about keeping God first in every part of our lives and remembering to thank and praise God always .... than about attending church on a particular day or observing a religious ritual. That being said, we are 'not to forsake the gathering together of believers.'

Faithfully "Keeping the Sabbath" is more about faithful stewardship of our time, resources, speech, thoughts and everything else in our control and influence ... dedicating all of these things FIRST to the Lord.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:30 AM
 
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Hmmm ... I think I agree!

The sabbath is resting in Christ and His work.

The Sunday (or Saturday) is symbolic of this.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:12 PM
 
8,078 posts, read 7,038,177 times
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In Eastern Churches like Russia and similar Countries take Monday as the first day of the week .... Plus the Secular business dictates Monday as the first day of the week .... Then some Christian churches in the west take Monday as the first day of the week ........ But then Judaism and the Catholic and some similar church are taking Sunday as the first day of the week ..... Then still other Religions take Saturday as the first day of the week .... Jesus said that if people have ought and judge others for the Sabbath on which day on not observing , or working or any judgment ..... Jesus said He and He alone will be the judge of the Sabbath as people will remember the Sabbath and Jesus is the Son of Man
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:57 PM
 
Location: West Coast USA
1,577 posts, read 1,843,018 times
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Default Admittedly, I have never been so blunt:

I really don't like it when we who keep the true sabbath seem to me to continually harangue Sunday-keepers. While this is my perception, to read a thread like this comes across to me a almost humorous, but it isn't funny. The Bible is a Hebrew book, written by Hebrews, but the thinking of the church is so Greek that it is scary.

Greek in that it is touchy-feely. Greek in that it is linear, while Hebrew thought, and the writings of the Bible, are what is commonly called "block thought." Greek in that the church is easily satisfied with thinking that if one does something in the heart but not in action, no problem. In other words, Greek like those who will so easily say, when something is not done as intended, promised, or rightfully expected, "Well, it's the thought that counts."

Hebrew does not accept any of the above as legitimate. In Hebrew language and action, intentionality is of absolutely no value. And in reality, intentions not carried out are worthless.

People wonder why Yeshua skirted those who wanted Him to make a clear statement as to His intentions and character. He would not because He is a Hebrew through and through; therefore, He told His harrassers to watch and recount what he DID and not to ask what He intended to do.

So we sit about and make up excuses and "reasons" for why we change the Holy Word of G-d who says to set aside the Sabbath, and He clarifies again and again what the Sabbath is -- in both the Tanakh and the Apostolic writings! -- but we reason it out and decide what poor G-d really meant when He said "Sabbath." Poor Guy! He didn't know what His intentions were and He needed us to reexplain them for Him!

It is an exercise in fulility to tell ourselves "what G-d really meant to say," "what He was trying to say."

When He said "Sabbath," please take it for granted that this was what He intended. Please! For the love of G-d! If you disagree with His choices, then just say you disagree with His choices! He can take it! He knows when we differ with His opinions.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:24 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,010,369 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by VelcroQueen View Post
I really don't like it when we who keep the true sabbath seem to me to continually harangue Sunday-keepers. While this is my perception, to read a thread like this comes across to me a almost humorous, but it isn't funny. The Bible is a Hebrew book, written by Hebrews, but the thinking of the church is so Greek that it is scary.

Greek in that it is touchy-feely. Greek in that it is linear, while Hebrew thought, and the writings of the Bible, are what is commonly called "block thought." Greek in that the church is easily satisfied with thinking that if one does something in the heart but not in action, no problem. In other words, Greek like those who will so easily say, when something is not done as intended, promised, or rightfully expected, "Well, it's the thought that counts."

Hebrew does not accept any of the above as legitimate. In Hebrew language and action, intentionality is of absolutely no value. And in reality, intentions not carried out are worthless.

People wonder why Yeshua skirted those who wanted Him to make a clear statement as to His intentions and character. He would not because He is a Hebrew through and through; therefore, He told His harrassers to watch and recount what he DID and not to ask what He intended to do.

So we sit about and make up excuses and "reasons" for why we change the Holy Word of G-d who says to set aside the Sabbath, and He clarifies again and again what the Sabbath is -- in both the Tanakh and the Apostolic writings! -- but we reason it out and decide what poor G-d really meant when He said "Sabbath." Poor Guy! He didn't know what His intentions were and He needed us to reexplain them for Him!

It is an exercise in fulility to tell ourselves "what G-d really meant to say," "what He was trying to say."

When He said "Sabbath," please take it for granted that this was what He intended. Please! For the love of G-d! If you disagree with His choices, then just say you disagree with His choices! He can take it! He knows when we differ with His opinions.
That is a masterful arguement and so true under the Old Covenant and you would be right but as concerning the Sabbath under the New, it is fine if you want to keep it but it is quite clear from Jesus that the Sabbath was not required for eternal life. When the rich man asked Jesus which commandments to keep, Jesus answered him very to the point and ommited the Sabbath. The wrings of Paul also agree and also ommit the Sabbath law because there as been a change as Twin as shown from Scripture. I would not say you harass people concerning the Sabbath but a few here do.

I know where your coming from but I respectfully disagree.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast USA
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Okay. I understand what you are writing. But tell me, please: with whom was the new covenant made?
Spoiler
It was not specifically made with Gentiles.


But before we continue: do you think we can write about this with respect? I appreciate this: so far, so good. I hate it when things get ugly!!! Can we keep it just people-to-people, without the long harangues?
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:04 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,010,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VelcroQueen View Post
Okay. I understand what you are writing. But tell me, please: with whom was the new covenant made?
Spoiler
It was not specifically made with Gentiles.


But before we continue: do you think we can write about this with respect? I appreciate this: so far, so good. I hate it when things get ugly!!! Can we keep it just people-to-people, without the long harangues?
The New Covenant is to the Jew first but not just to them and then to the Gentle and many of both cling [no doubt a hold over of O.T. understanding] to a certain day of Sabbath and that is OK as the Scripture says let everyone be persuaded in there own mind [God respects the individual differances in conscience and we should too] as to what is good for them but it also says that some have a differant day as Sabbath and some consider everyday alike but all are upheld by Christ. Therefor there is no need to judge what is right for any man in this regard let alone condemn one for the freedom that Christ given in regard to Sabbath.

The partition between Jew and Gentle [the wall of the court of the Gentles has been broken down]. All are a New Creation in Christ even if differant traditions are held by each, they should be respected by each toward the other.

Last edited by garya123; 07-23-2012 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Hephzibah, GA
281 posts, read 239,501 times
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In reference to keeping the Sabbath, it is not about the New Covenant, but about the Covenant with Israel. The entirety of the Law, including the first Ten, are giving to Israel as a nation. No other nation is obligated to observe them unless they wanted to become God-lovers (Jewish novites, if you will). As to the Sabbath, it has always been, and will forever remain, the seventh day of the week, Saturday, for us English speakers. The Sabbath was given to Israel as a sign and seal of the Covenant God made:

Ex 31:13–18:
13 “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16 So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’
17 “It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
18 When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God. (NASB-95)

We as those in Christ, celebrants of the New Covenant, are not under any part of the Law, which included the observation of the seventh day, the Sabbath. While Paul met with the Jews in synagogues on the Sabbath because that is where he would find Jews on the Sabbath, he meet with the Gentiles on Sunday in the meeting places because that is where he would find the Gentiles gathered on Sunday. As he was establishing the churches on his trips, he gave no instruction to the churches to observe the Jewish Law to meet and worship on the Sabbath. The early Jewish church met on Saturday in and around the Temple because of the fact that it was in the Temple on the Sabbath that Jews met! But again, there is no mandate for the new believing converted Jews who now make up the church to meet and worship on the Sabbath in accordance with the Law. In fact, with everything that the Jerusalem council could have given instruction on to the new Gentile churches, gave only this:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: That ye abstain from from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts 15:28-29, KJV)

It has been assumed by many that they were instructed by Paul that they were to keep the Sabbath, but there is no Scriptural basis for this assumption. Why wouldn't Paul give clear instruction about the meeting and worship day of the Church if it was so important for the Gentile church to observe the Sabbath? Why wouldn't the Jerusalem Council have given instruction to keep the Sabbath if it were so important for Gentiles, who are not obligated under the Law, to keep the Sabbath? Because of the very fact that the Church of Christ is not under any obligation to keep the Law because we are free from the Law, and that include those Jews who have become slaves of Christ even as we Gentiles have.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:42 AM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,010,369 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched.elect View Post
In reference to keeping the Sabbath, it is not about the New Covenant, but about the Covenant with Israel. The entirety of the Law, including the first Ten, are giving to Israel as a nation. No other nation is obligated to observe them unless they wanted to become God-lovers (Jewish novites, if you will). As to the Sabbath, it has always been, and will forever remain, the seventh day of the week, Saturday, for us English speakers. The Sabbath was given to Israel as a sign and seal of the Covenant God made:

Ex 31:13–18:
13 “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16 So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’
17 “It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
18 When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God. (NASB-95)

We as those in Christ, celebrants of the New Covenant, are not under any part of the Law, which included the observation of the seventh day, the Sabbath. While Paul met with the Jews in synagogues on the Sabbath because that is where he would find Jews on the Sabbath, he meet with the Gentiles on Sunday in the meeting places because that is where he would find the Gentiles gathered on Sunday. As he was establishing the churches on his trips, he gave no instruction to the churches to observe the Jewish Law to meet and worship on the Sabbath. The early Jewish church met on Saturday in and around the Temple because of the fact that it was in the Temple on the Sabbath that Jews met! But again, there is no mandate for the new believing converted Jews who now make up the church to meet and worship on the Sabbath in accordance with the Law. In fact, with everything that the Jerusalem council could have given instruction on to the new Gentile churches, gave only this:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: That ye abstain from from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts 15:28-29, KJV)

It has been assumed by many that they were instructed by Paul that they were to keep the Sabbath, but there is no Scriptural basis for this assumption. Why wouldn't Paul give clear instruction about the meeting and worship day of the Church if it was so important for the Gentile church to observe the Sabbath? Why wouldn't the Jerusalem Council have given instruction to keep the Sabbath if it were so important for Gentiles, who are not obligated under the Law, to keep the Sabbath? Because of the very fact that the Church of Christ is not under any obligation to keep the Law because we are free from the Law, and that include those Jews who have become slaves of Christ even as we Gentiles have.
Great stuff! Thanks.
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