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Old 07-30-2012, 04:06 PM
 
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I have often wondered whether modern day churches or denominations have angels similar to those spoken about in Revelations chapter 2 to 4.

Revelations usually starts the process by "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus..." , and then outlines from the Lord's point of view what is good and what is bad about that church or those believers within that church.

It is quite revealing, almost frightening to remember that the Lord sees all and knows all. Sometimes we forget this!

Further, what would you expect to be told about your church or spiritual doings, if the Lord spoke to your church angel?

Now some may say those Revelation angels were just the top Bishops and Deacons looking after that church, but I think the early church really had angels over their churches. What do you think?

Let's see what you come up and why it might be both important and necessary for your church. Have we missed some vital part of spiritual life and understanding that the early Christian churches had?

Thanks people.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Texas
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.

.


Isaiah 14:29 "fiery flying serpent", otherwise known as a six-winged, Seraph [fiery one.]


Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon


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Old 07-30-2012, 06:29 PM
 
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Default Have I Lost the Plot?

Maybe it's too deep a question and of little value to discuss?

In context Isaiah was prophesying worse and worse oppressors to come, therefore snakes to vipers (or fiery serpents), warning Hezekiah to rely on God and not surrounding nations.

But like Daniel I am assured that God still rules in the kingdoms of men (Daniel 4:25) and in most believing and faithful churches regardless what their members do. Angels or no angels.

Thanks anyway.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyQuen View Post
I have often wondered whether modern day churches or denominations have angels similar to those spoken about in Revelations chapter 2 to 4.

Revelations usually starts the process by "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus..." , and then outlines from the Lord's point of view what is good and what is bad about that church or those believers within that church.

It is quite revealing, almost frightening to remember that the Lord sees all and knows all. Sometimes we forget this!

Further, what would you expect to be told about your church or spiritual doings, if the Lord spoke to your church angel?

Now some may say those Revelation angels were just the top Bishops and Deacons looking after that church, but I think the early church really had angels over their churches. What do you think?

Let's see what you come up and why it might be both important and necessary for your church. Have we missed some vital part of spiritual life and understanding that the early Christian churches had?

Thanks people.
I don't believe John wrote to Angels as we think of them because they receive directly from God and they always behold the face of God. I beleive John was writing to the Ministers who are seen as Angels like when Paul said, "You received me as an Angel."

Yes the churches that belong to Christ have a number of real Angels in there mist. In fact it is written that the Angel of the Lord encamps around those who are heirs of salvation. You have at lest one and when your together with other beleivers thier Angels come along with them also. Well, you do the math!

HEB 12:22-24 "But you are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of Angels, to the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things that that of Abel."
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Texas
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.

Seraph = angel


Isaiah 14:29


Seraph, the fiery flying serpent, is directed against the enemies of God.

When God's enemies celebrate over the destruction of the last righteous king,
his descendant/heir arises to destroy them.


Some interpret God's "fiery flying serpent" to be God's Anointed One [Messiah.]



" And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole,
and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.' "

Numbers 21:8



" And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. "


John 3:14-15






This is very deep.


.

Last edited by king's highway; 07-30-2012 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:01 PM
 
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People have demonized or dehumanized the messenger(s).


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Old 07-30-2012, 09:01 PM
 
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The Bible does portray a Spiritual War with angelic conflict..

2 Kings 6:14-17

King James Version (KJV)

14 Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.

15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?

16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.


Daniel 10

11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.

12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.

13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

...

19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.

20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

Matthew 26:53
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

There are real angels on both sides in this Spiritual War. When we are praying for others, we may just have no clue at all the power that is behind it. I do believe there are angels overseeing our person and Churches absolutely.

It's interesting to note that the first Church mentioned "left their first love". I think this is significant because we are primarily redeemed for fellowship and God wants a relationship with each and every one of us. The "missionary" church and the persecuted church got good reviews from the Lord. The lukewarm and backslidden didn't. The Medieval Church is heading into the Great Tribulation unless they repent, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:44 AM
 
81 posts, read 67,118 times
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Default At Last...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
The Bible does portray a Spiritual War with angelic conflict..
Now that's what I call spiritual thinking, weaned off the milk and able to eat meat!

This line of thought is consistent with - And Elisha prayed, "O LORD, open his eyes so he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha." (2 Kings 6:17 NIV)

What is the significance in my view? Well I agree we are in a spiritual war and it becomes every believing Christian to acknowledge that fact. But as important is the angelic protection given to faithful churches in Jesus, that God's ministering angels stand for us and not against us. AKA ministering to the church and the saints according to the Lord's commands, but never to be worshipped.

Denominations and differences dwindle into insignificance when realized that we are part of a much bigger spiritual picture and part of God's army. Have we lost that I wonder or are God's angelic forces too superficial for us today? And with our are petty differences and squabbling, the reality that an army that is divided is an army that falls, makes us a laughing stock to the outside world. Elisha was simply saying to the young man: "Lord show him the bigger picture."

On reflection then, what type of angels oversee those churches we deem to be off-kilter or is that too dangerous to pursue?
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:06 AM
 
81 posts, read 67,118 times
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Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
I think a big part of it is we're not walking right.

John 12:35
Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

Jesus Christ is the light..
Good move...

Interesting that some of the early churches in Revelations from the Lord's perspective, indicated that the light of many believers had turned to darkness and had drawn many away. As warned by Jesus...

Luke 11: 33-35: "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness. See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness."

I think this is an essential prayer for all believing Christians to say quietly in private, asking Jesus to check the light of our eyes and cleanness of our hearts, for real. To stop us from being drawn away from the truth, enable us to be conformed to his image and ministry, and prevent us from being deceived either by ourselves or others.

As Romans 13:12 states...
The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. It seems that as in the early church, the greater the spirituality and closeness to God, then the greater the chance of being deceived and falling into darkness. Makes sense really. Mundane believers, dried up denominations and religious cults have no attraction for Satan.

But I know there is more to this light that Jesus talks about than meets the eye! Need to find out.
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
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The word "angel" can also mean "messenger". This makes sense as this is the typical work of angels, to bring a message from God, as when an angel spoke to Mary, the women at Jesus resurrection, the angels who spoke to the disciples at Jesus ascension, and when the angel visited Zechariah. All messages. So you ask the question, well how are the angels bringing messages to these churches. The answer is simple if you can accept that the angels are the pastors of these churches. This fits with the rest of the New Testament. Pastors have a high calling. They bring the word of God to the people. There are strong condemnations for those who spread false doctrine. There are high qualifications for pastors, as Paul points out in 1 Tim. 3:1 and following. Pastors have to give an account of their ministry. So it all makes sense, because now the pastors have these messages from Jesus to these churches.

Interesting, if you read the description of the different churches and the challenges they face, and realize that as you get older to see all these things in various churches.
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