Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It was LOVE that rained down fire onto Sodom and killed them all. It was LOVE who killed 30 000 Jews because their king ran a census against the will of LOVE. Or was it?
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 08-01-2012 at 01:32 PM..
Yes, love motivated him to do that. But God's wrath is what put him on the cross in the first place. If God wasn't just and wrathful, he wouldn't have needed a sacrifice.
Just curious....why do you think Jesus died on the cross?
Out of Love for the whole world.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
I think we're talking past each other here. So you apparently believe that Jesus had to die on the cross for people to be forgiven...which means that God is just and wrathful. Is that correct?
There was no other way he could show the world the scope of His Love, than laying down His Life for it. His death while We were STILL sinners is a demonstration of our great His love IS for us. It takes faith to believe this,that God loved us while we were still sinners. The very thing te fudamentalsts tell us God is holding against us, Jesus' death tells us otherwise.
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
What more could he do to show that He is not counting our sin against us ?.
There was no other way he could show the world the scope of His Love, than laying down His Life for it. His death while We were STILL sinners is a demonstration of our great His love IS for us. It takes faith to believe this,that God loved us while we were still sinners. The very thing te fudamentalsts tell us God is holding against us, Jesus' death tells us otherwise.
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
What more could he do to show that He is not counting our sin against us ?.
So you're of the impression that he loved us so much he just decided to go get crucified to show it? Why not just buy everyone a Ferrari? I mean if him being crucified never actually accomplished anything for me...it doesn't really affect me. A nice red Ferrari would have been a more meaningful gift.
So you're of the impression that he loved us so much he just decided to go get crucified to show it? Why not just buy everyone a Ferrari? I mean if him being crucified never actually accomplished anything for me...it doesn't really affect me. A nice red Ferrari would have been a more meaningful gift.
For God SO loved the world he gave us a red Ferrari, somehow I do not think would have the same impact as laying down his life for us.
This is disturbing on so many levels. I tend to believe that Jesus never uttered these hateful words and they certainly don't demonstrate this incredible love that universal redemptionists believe God possess for His children regardless of how sinful a life they led.
To begin with, we are not even talking about sin here. The people crying, "Lord, Lord" from all appearances are not even cognizant they did anything wrong. They did this and they did that in Jesus' name and we are told nothing of what their intentions were in doing it, though we can surmise from Jesus' reply that their actions were without holy intentions. Still, the things they did were not "sinful" per se. So how could Jesus so callously write them off with "Depart from me!" if He is this totally loving understanding Savior who came to save the world?
This is not the Jesus of the Prodigal Son who told of the Father welcoming His errant child back, no questions asked, after the child lived the most horrendous kind of sinful life as a reprobate. The actions of those crying plaintively, "Lord, Lord" pale in comparison to this child's filth and yet the father (God) welcomes him back with open arms while pushing away without so much as a tear those who cry for mercy and don't even know what it was they did wrong?
Every Christian should be in dreadful fear of these words. Any of us in eternity at judgement could be crying, "Lord, Lord, didn't I give to the poor and help out those in distress and preach your word" only to have Jesus say, "I never knew you. Depart from me you worker of iniquity."
As I said, I find the contrast between the Jesus of the lost sheep and this cold and unloving Jesus so startling as to think we are talking about two totally different people. Oddly enough, it is only in Matthew that all of these hateful things appear. Witness the infamous "Depart from Me into the eternal flames prepared for the devil et.al" Luke 13:23-27 is excepted because it deals only with the Jews who denounced Him.
Can some UR'ers address how they can believe this Jesus of Matthew will be the same Jesus who will welcome the most vile sinner into His loving embrace? Again, I think a case can be made that Jesus never said these hateful words; that like countless other verses His words were either "doctored" or outright fabricated.
Those are hard words to hear from a loving God. My best interpretation is that it is a relationship. You didn't spend time in prayer and reading of the word. (getting to know God and letting him know you). By the way, Jesus will welcome any sinner that will come to him, no matter how vile. We are all "sinners." (I was a sinner when I came to him, and I'm still a sinner, but I try to live in the right.)
God also doesn't just look at your actions. He looks at the heart behind the actions. If you do what you do to glorify God, he will reward you. If you do what you do for selfish reasons, then...
Yeah, this can be some of the harder parts of the Bible.
A Judge that freely releases the guilty from prison would not be Just.
How can a Just God that Loves sinful man release him from the prison he deserves? Pay the price for them.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You mean the same prison "God" lovingly and mercifully kept you out of ?.
You need to revise your thinking or you will be thrown into the prison you think we all deserve.
The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him*go. Matt 18:27
Go and show the same mercy you have been shown.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
