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Old 08-09-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
That sounds pretty contrived to come to the conclusion that Enoch wrote it, but I guess there are many views out there.. Only one can be right though. I'm sticking with the Lord's testimony that Moses was the penman with God being the Author. I believe him when he says "Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my Words will not pass away".. The Word of God all has the same "style" to an extant, and if people reject Moses how do they know his style to compare it to?

I sometimes wonder about the authenticity of these "scholars".
Why don't you read the Pentateuch and the Book of Enoch and judge for youself instead of taking other's words that it is a herasy or my words that the writing styes are very similar?...
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Moses dies at the end, so somebody else had to fill in that part, right?
RESPONSE:

What Moses is supposed to have said and did was written about 500 years after his death. There were several versions of the Moses legends that were included.

The Pentateuch -- the first five books of the Bible

"It is difficult to account for so many doublets -- most containing slight discrepancies -- if all five books were written over a short interval of time by Moses or by any other single individual. Liberal theologians reasoned that a much more logical explanation is that the books were written by multiple authors who lived long after the events described. That would have allowed the oral tradition to be passed from generation to generation in different areas of the land so that they had a chance to deviate from each other before being written down. In a few cases, triplets have been found in the Pentateuch where the same accounts appears three times."


And we could expand the question to ask if the Hebrews were even in Egypt in the first place. Despite the 2 million ormore Hebrews which can computed from Exodus, there is no archeological trace or writing that they were ever in Egypt or left archeological footprints while having spend 40 years in the desert.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

"A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness, and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit". A number of theories have been put forward to account for the origins of the Israelites, and despite differing details they agree on Israel's Canaanite origins"

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-09-2012 at 11:27 AM.. Reason: addition
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,279 posts, read 1,147,320 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Actually, Mike555 gave a very poor answer, but one typically given by those who want to maintain the inerrancy of scripture and its literal historical accuracy in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Moses would not have known the names of the Edomite kings born long after his death, nor would he know the date when Israel would first have a king.

The Cinderella comparison is apt. Assertions are not evidence.

Also appropriate is the story of the preacher who announced that he would prove that God exists in his next sermon.

When Sunday came his church was packed. The preacher ascended the pulpit, opened his Bible, and announced we can be sure that God exists because the Bible says so!

That's another example of trying to use the bible to prove the accuracy of the Bible. Just like the Cinderella story, isn't it? []
Actually everyone else has given the best answer, that God himself said Moses wrote it. I know that isn't good for you, it was Mike555 that gave an excellent answer for a person like you. Just because you deny the answer doesn't mean a thing.

And NO, the Cinderella story isn't anything like using to Bible to prove things. I know you do not understand that either, but that is your problem. There is not one thing wrong with using the Bible to prove things, even other parts of the Bible. Do you know why? Apparently you do not. Once again it's only your problem. I'm happy to support those that trust in the Lord, who has been proven true beyond all measures and there is no need to question it whatsoever.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:42 AM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

If Cindrella claims her story is true, is that really proof that it is?

>>Many of the things that were reported on were reported long after the event<<

In this case we are talking about something supposedly reported before the event.

>>that verse simply anticipated the fact << Are you serious?

"...a list of Edomite kings that appears in Genesis 36 named kings who lived long after Moses was dead” Yet Moses knew their names?????

>>And kings shall come forth from you.<<

And Gen 36:31 "Before Israel had a king, there were kings who ruled in Edom." This is refering to a specific time, ie before 1000 BC. "Kings shall come forth from you" is a general statement not a reference to a specific time.
Can you grasp the essential difference?
Am I serious? Oh yes! Quite serious. What you cannot grasp is the fact that the writers of Scripture, including Moses, wrote under divine inspiration. This is typical of skeptics and liberal theologians who simply do not believe in the possibility of predictive prophecy. Moses had special revelation as seen in Deuteronomy 17:14-15.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:13 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Actually, Mike555 gave a very poor answer, but one typically given by those who want to maintain the inerrancy of scripture and its literal historical accuracy in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Moses would not have known the names of the Edomite kings born long after his death, nor would he know the date when Israel would first have a king.

The Cinderella comparison is apt. Assertions are not evidence.

Also appropriate is the story of the preacher who announced that he would prove that God exists in his next sermon.

When Sunday came his church was packed. The preacher ascended the pulpit, opened his Bible, and announced we can be sure that God exists because the Bible says so!

That's another example of trying to use the bible to prove the accuracy of the Bible. Just like the Cinderella story, isn't it? []
When confronted with the reality of fulfilled prophecy your excuse is always that the event was written after the fact to make it seem that prophecy was fulfilled. You allege for instance that the writers of the gospels wrote so as to make it seem that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecy .

But in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy there is once again a nation or state of Israel and many of the Jews are back in the land in a state of unbelief long after the completion of the Bible. >>> > Israel Regathered : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX


I will not waste time on those who are determined to reject the truth as you are. Therefore this is my last reply to you.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:16 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
+1

You gave a very good answer and now you get the "Cinderella Story" fallacy! Not the first time he has done that either.
Thank you.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,331 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
Actually everyone else has given the best answer, that God himself said Moses wrote it. I know that isn't good for you, it was Mike555 that gave an excellent answer for a person like you. Just because you deny the answer doesn't mean a thing.

And NO, the Cinderella story isn't anything like using to Bible to prove things. I know you do not understand that either, but that is your problem. There is not one thing wrong with using the Bible to prove things, even other parts of the Bible. Do you know why? Apparently you do not. Once again it's only your problem. I'm happy to support those that trust in the Lord, who has been proven true beyond all measures and there is no need to question it whatsoever.
RESPONSE:

>>God himself said Moses wrote it.<<

Really? And let me guess. That must be so because it says it in the Bible, right?

>>There is not one thing wrong with using the Bible to prove things, even other parts of the Bible<<

My friend Ralph wrote a book proving that he's an Apostle. That's the only proof. Should we believe him?
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,331 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When confronted with the reality of fulfilled prophecy your excuse is always that the event was written after the fact to make it seem that prophecy was fulfilled. You allege for instance that the writers of the gospels wrote so as to make it seem that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecy .

But in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy there is once again a nation or state of Israel and many of the Jews are back in the land in a state of unbelief long after the completion of the Bible. >>> > Israel Regathered : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX


I will not waste time on those who are determined to reject the truth as you are. Therefore this is my last reply to you.
RESPONSE:

Please present actually evidence (other than the mere biblical story) that the ancient Hebrews were ever in Egypt.

It is prudent not to accept mere legends presented as historical.

If you can't present actual evidence, yes, please stop wasting readers time .

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-09-2012 at 04:43 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,279 posts, read 1,147,320 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

>>God himself said Moses wrote it.<<

Really? And let me guess. That must be so because it says it in the Bible, right?

>>There is not one thing wrong with using the Bible to prove things, even other parts of the Bible<<

My friend Ralph wrote a book proving that he's an Apostle. That's the only proof. Should we believe him?
Yes AW, because the Bible says so.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:18 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,866,824 times
Reputation: 3724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Why don't you read the Pentateuch and the Book of Enoch and judge for youself instead of taking other's words that it is a herasy or my words that the writing styes are very similar?...
I have actually read the Book of Enoch. I'm on the edge whether it is inspired or not. I just don't know. It uses the personal pronoun Ezazial (sp?) too much as well as a number of other things which make me think it wasn't the same style as Moses. In the Torah Canon as we have it now in the KJV, there is not that much emphasis put on personal names of the spiritual enemy. There is Satan/Lucifer, but for the most part the fallen angels are referred to as such or simply the "sons of God" (Job 2). Just my unscholarly opinion.

I think Moses wrote the Torah because Jesus Christ said he did and I believe him.
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