U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-11-2012, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
Obviously there are editorial comments added to the Pentateuch after Moses's death (and not just chapter 34), but this does not take away from the fact that he wrote the bulk of it (as in, > 99%), nor subtract from the verbal inspiration. I think people make too much out of things like chapter 34 (and see also Deut. 2:10-12). It certainly does not prove the J,E,D,P hypothesis.
RESPONSE:

Start by establishing that large number of Hebrews were slave in Egypt around 1400 BC. Otherwise these stories are only stories.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-11-2012, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When confronted with the reality of fulfilled prophecy your excuse is always that the event was written after the fact to make it seem that prophecy was fulfilled. You allege for instance that the writers of the gospels wrote so as to make it seem that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecy .

But in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy there is once again a nation or state of Israel and many of the Jews are back in the land in a state of unbelief long after the completion of the Bible. >>> > Israel Regathered : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX


RESPONSE:

To fulfill the messianic prophecies in the Old Testament, Jesus would have had to return ALL the Jews to the "Proimised Land", not just "many." There are "many" Jews in Teanect, New Jersey, so obvioiusly Jesus did not fulfill this messianic prophecy.

Neither did he sit on the throne of Israel nor return the rule to Israel by driving out the Romans.

Let me guess! Jesus is going to fulfill these messianic prophecies during the "Second Coming"???????

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-11-2012 at 05:56 AM.. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 07:39 AM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

To fulfill the messianic prophecies in the Old Testament, Jesus would have had to return ALL the Jews to the "Proimised Land", not just "many." There are "many" Jews in Teanect, New Jersey, so obvioiusly Jesus did not fulfill this messianic prophecy.

Neither did he sit on the throne of Israel nor return the rule to Israel by driving out the Romans.

Let me guess! Jesus is going to fulfill these messianic prophecies during the "Second Coming"???????
The return of the Jews to the land is in two phases. The first phase is a return of many Jews to the land in a state of unbelief. This has been accomplished. As of 1948 there is now a nation or state of Israel. When Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation He will return to an existing Israel. He will return and defend Jerusalem from the armies of the antichrist who are attacking it.

The second phase is a return of all the Jews to Israel in a state of belief. Because of the judgments of the tribulation all the Jews will realize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they had rejected. When Christ at returns at the end of the Tribulation He will regather all the Jews to Israel.

Jesus will indeed sit on the throne of David during the Millennial kingdom which will be established when He returns.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The return of the Jews to the land is in two phases. The first phase is a return of many Jews to the land in a state of unbelief. This has been accomplished. As of 1948 there is now a nation or state of Israel. When Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation He will return to an existing Israel. He will return and defend Jerusalem from the armies of the antichrist who are attacking it.

The second phase is a return of all the Jews to Israel in a state of belief. Because of the judgments of the tribulation all the Jews will realize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they had rejected. When Christ at returns at the end of the Tribulation He will regather all the Jews to Israel.

Jesus will indeed sit on the throne of David during the Millennial kingdom which will be established when He returns.
Armageddon occurs after the Millenial Reign...Look it up...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 11:33 AM
 
1,784 posts, read 2,876,737 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Armageddon occurs after the Millenial Reign...Look it up...
Well, many Christians would disagree, seeing how Rev. 19 comes before Rev. 20 in the text. Now, people have opposing views, but your statement is hardly conclusive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
Well, many Christians would disagree, seeing how Rev. 19 comes before Rev. 20 in the text. Now, people have opposing views, but your statement is hardly conclusive.
This is not Armageddon:

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of a great multitude in the heaven, saying, `Alleluia! the salvation, and the glory, and the honour, and the power, is to the Lord our God;
Rev 19:2 because true and righteous are His judgments, because He did judge the great ***** who did corrupt the earth in her whoredom, and He did avenge the blood of His servants at her hand;'
Rev 19:3 and a second time they said, `Alleluia;' and her smoke doth come up--to the ages of the ages!
Rev 19:4 And fall down did the elders--the twenty and four--and the four living creatures, and they did bow before God who is sitting upon the throne, saying, `Amen, Alleluia.'
Rev 19:5 And a voice out of the throne did come forth, saying, `Praise our God, all ye His servants, and those fearing Him, both the small and the great;'
Rev 19:6 and I heard as the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, `Alleluia! because reign did the Lord God--the Almighty!
Rev 19:7 may we rejoice and exult, and give the glory to Him, because come did the marriage of the Lamb, and his wife did make herself ready;
Rev 19:8 and there was given to her that she may be arrayed with fine linen, pure and shining, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.'
Rev 19:9 And he saith to me, `Write: Happy are they who to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb have been called;' and he saith to me, `These are the true words of God;'
Rev 19:10 and I fell before his feet, to bow before him, and he saith to me, `See--not! fellow servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren, those having the testimony of Jesus; bow before God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.'
Rev 19:11 And I saw the heaven having been opened, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness doth he judge and war,
Rev 19:12 and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems--having a name written that no one hath known, except himself,
Rev 19:13 and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in the heaven were following him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen--white and pure;
Rev 19:15 and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and he doth tread the press of the wine of the wrath and the anger of God the Almighty,
Rev 19:16 and he hath upon the garment and upon his thigh the name written, `King of kings, and Lord of lords.'
Rev 19:17 And I saw one messenger standing in the sun, and he cried, a great voice, saying to all the birds that are flying in mid-heaven, `Come and be gathered together to the supper of the great God,
Rev 19:18 that ye may eat flesh of kings, and flesh of chiefs of thousands, and flesh of strong men, and flesh of horses, and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all--freemen and servants--both small and great.'
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, having been gathered together to make war with him who is sitting upon the horse, and with his army;
Rev 19:20 and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast--the two--to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;
Rev 19:21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him who is sitting on the horse, which sword is proceeding out of his mouth, and all the birds were filled out of their flesh.



Rev 20:1 And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,
Rev 20:2 and he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, who is Devil and Adversary, and did bind him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

See below regarding the SECOND Resurrection for verse 20:

(Rev 20:5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.)

Obviously the first resurrection occurs prior to the millenial reign and those that have that first resurrection, are those that believed in Yeshua and the Gospel:

(Rev 20:6 Happy and holy is he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.)

Here is where Armageddon begins:

(Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them together to war, of whom the number is as the sand of the sea;
Rev 20:9 and they did go up over the breadth of the land, and did surround the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, and there came down fire from God out of the heaven, and devoured them

And here is the end of Armageddon:

(Rev 20:10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.)


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;

Here is the SECOND Resurrection:

Rev 20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls--according to their works;
Rev 20:13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Rev 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.


One's hope rests in not being resurrected and seeing scrolls being opened...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 01:30 PM
 
1,784 posts, read 2,876,737 times
Reputation: 1242
OK, then I'm going to argue a technical point. I think it's plausible to say that the battle of Argmageddon and the battle of Gog and Magog are different events.

The only time 'Armageddon' is used is in Rev. 16:16, and thus is part of the events that conclude in Rev. 19. It does not appear in Rev. 20:7-10.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
OK, then I'm going to argue a technical point. I think it's plausible to say that the battle of Argmageddon and the battle of Gog and Magog are different events.

The only time 'Armageddon' is used is in Rev. 16:16, and thus is part of the events that conclude in Rev. 19. It does not appear in Rev. 20:7-10.
Revelations is not in chronological order...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 01:48 PM
 
1,784 posts, read 2,876,737 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Revelations is not in chronological order...
Well that's probably why I said earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold
Well, many Christians would disagree, seeing how Rev. 19 comes before Rev. 20 in the text. Now, people have opposing views, but your statement is hardly conclusive.

You are free to hold it is out of order, but you can hardly be dogmatic about it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2012, 02:24 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
Well that's probably why I said earlier:




You are free to hold it is out of order, but you can hardly be dogmatic about it.
You believe as you wish...You'll be surprised at the end...It does not make a difference in one Salvation if one understands Revelations or not...Everyone is given a measure of Faith and Understanding...And all the measures are not of equal length...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top