U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 08-09-2012, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255

Advertisements

It is claimed that Moses was the author of the first five books of the Old Testament, the Pentateuch. But a more modern view is that these books were really written about 900 B.C. long after the death of Moses and his followers. As best as can be determined form scripture, Moses died in about 1400 BC

The phrase “to this day” appears occasionally in the Pentateuch indicating that the things referred to were being reported long after the event.

R.E. Friedman wrote: "In the eleventh century, Isaac ibn Yashush, a Jewish court physician of a ruler in Muslim Spain, pointed out that a list of Edomite kings that appears in Genesis 36 named kings who lived long after Moses was dead”

And Gen 36:31 "Before Israel had a king, there were kings who ruled in Edom."
Thus this was written after Israel had it first king, Saul, in about 1000 BC.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-09-2012 at 06:40 AM.. Reason: removed [size]
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-09-2012, 07:51 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,865,496 times
Reputation: 3724
Jesus Christ authenticates Moses' authorship of the Torah.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

There's many more examples of Jesus Christ's authentication of the Old Testament as the Word of God. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter who wrote the book of Moses.


IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE FROM DANIEL9 THAT JESUS IS THE MESSIAH - CHUCK MISSLER - PART1 - YouTube

As with all things concerning "scholars", there are always two sides to the story.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 08:06 AM
 
Location: US
26,241 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
Jesus Christ authenticates Moses' authorship of the Torah.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

There's many more examples of Jesus Christ's authentication of the Old Testament as the Word of God. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter who wrote the book of Moses.


IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE FROM DANIEL9 THAT JESUS IS THE MESSIAH - CHUCK MISSLER - PART1 - YouTube

As with all things concerning "scholars", there are always two sides to the story.
Many allege it was Enoch...When I read the Pentateuch and the Book of Enoch I see a heavy similarity in writing style...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 08:50 AM
 
20,291 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
It is claimed that Moses was the author of the first five books of the Old Testament, the Pentateuch. But a more modern view is that these books were really written about 900 B.C. long after the death of Moses and his followers. As best as can be determined form scripture, Moses died in about 1400 BC

The phrase “to this day” appears occasionally in the Pentateuch indicating that the things referred to were being reported long after the event.

R.E. Friedman wrote: "In the eleventh century, Isaac ibn Yashush, a Jewish court physician of a ruler in Muslim Spain, pointed out that a list of Edomite kings that appears in Genesis 36 named kings who lived long after Moses was dead”

And Gen 36:31 "Before Israel had a king, there were kings who ruled in Edom."
Thus this was written after Israel had it first king, Saul, in about 1000 BC.
Moses was the author of the Pentateuch just as the Scriptures declare him to be.

Many of the things that were reported on were reported long after the event. For example Moses recorded the events of creation and restoration of the earth. He recorded the flood. Those things occurred long before Moses recorded them in Genesis.

Regarding Genesis 36:31, that verse simply anticipated the fact that Israel would have kings in the future. God had told Jacob that there would be kings as stated in Gen. 35:11.

Gen. 35:11 God also said to him, "I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come forth from you.

Moses made reference to a future king in Deut 17:14-15.

Deut 17:14 "When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,' 15] you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses, one from among your countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your countryman.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
Jesus Christ authenticates Moses' authorship of the Torah.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

There's many more examples of Jesus Christ's authentication of the Old Testament as the Word of God. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter who wrote the book of Moses.


IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE FROM DANIEL9 THAT JESUS IS THE MESSIAH - CHUCK MISSLER - PART1 - YouTube

As with all things concerning "scholars", there are always two sides to the story.
RESPONSE:

It is always interesting when someone attempts to use Jesus quotes from scripture as being factual to attempt to prove something or uses the claims of some preacher.

The fact is that such "Jesus said.." evidence is, as in this case, something written fifty years after his death by someone who never knew Jesus and, in the case of Luke, wasn't even from the same area.

From the Introduction to Luke, New American Bible:

"Luke’s consistent substitution of Greek names for the Aramaic or Hebrew names occurring in his sources (e.g., Lk 23:33; Mk 15:22; Lk 18:41; Mk 10:51), his omission from the gospel of specifically Jewish Christian concerns found in his sources (e.g., Mk 7:123), his interest in Gentile Christians (Lk 2:3032; 3:6, 38; 4:1630; 13:2830; 14:1524; 17:1119; 24:4748), and his incomplete knowledge of Palestinian geography, customs, and practices are among the characteristics of this gospel that suggest that Luke was a non-Palestinian writing to a non-Palestinian audience that was largely made up of Gentile Christians."


Yet some continue to "prove scripture" by quoting yet another scripture claiming to report what Jesus supposedly said.

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-09-2012 at 09:02 AM.. Reason: typo
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Moses was the author of the Pentateuch just as the Scriptures declare him to be.

Many of the things that were reported on were reported long after the event. For example Moses recorded the events of creation and restoration of the earth. He recorded the flood. Those things occurred long before Moses recorded them in Genesis.

Regarding Genesis 36:31, that verse simply anticipated the fact that Israel would have kings in the future. God had told Jacob that there would be kings as stated in Gen. 35:11.

Gen. 35:11 God also said to him, "I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come forth from you.

Moses made reference to a future king in Deut 17:14-15.

Deut 17:14 "When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,' 15] you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses, one from among your countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your countryman.
RESPONSE:

If Cindrella claims her story is true, is that really proof that it is?

>>Many of the things that were reported on were reported long after the event<<

In this case we are talking about something supposedly reported before the event.

>>that verse simply anticipated the fact << Are you serious?

"...a list of Edomite kings that appears in Genesis 36 named kings who lived long after Moses was dead” Yet Moses knew their names?????

>>And kings shall come forth from you.<<

And Gen 36:31 "Before Israel had a king, there were kings who ruled in Edom." This is refering to a specific time, ie before 1000 BC. "Kings shall come forth from you" is a general statement not a reference to a specific time.
Can you grasp the essential difference?

Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-09-2012 at 09:14 AM.. Reason: typo
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 09:17 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,865,496 times
Reputation: 3724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Many allege it was Enoch...When I read the Pentateuch and the Book of Enoch I see a heavy similarity in writing style...
That sounds pretty contrived to come to the conclusion that Enoch wrote it, but I guess there are many views out there.. Only one can be right though. I'm sticking with the Lord's testimony that Moses was the penman with God being the Author. I believe him when he says "Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my Words will not pass away".. The Word of God all has the same "style" to an extant, and if people reject Moses how do they know his style to compare it to?

I sometimes wonder about the authenticity of these "scholars".
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,279 posts, read 1,146,726 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Moses was the author of the Pentateuch just as the Scriptures declare him to be.

Many of the things that were reported on were reported long after the event. For example Moses recorded the events of creation and restoration of the earth. He recorded the flood. Those things occurred long before Moses recorded them in Genesis.

Regarding Genesis 36:31, that verse simply anticipated the fact that Israel would have kings in the future. God had told Jacob that there would be kings as stated in Gen. 35:11.

Gen. 35:11 God also said to him, "I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come forth from you.

Moses made reference to a future king in Deut 17:14-15.

Deut 17:14 "When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,' 15] you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses, one from among your countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your countryman.
+1

You gave a very good answer and now you get the "Cinderella Story" fallacy! Not the first time he has done that either.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 10:47 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,182 posts, read 50,480,930 times
Reputation: 60062
Moses dies at the end, so somebody else had to fill in that part, right?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2012, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,935,861 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
+1

You gave a very good answer and now you get the "Cinderella Story" fallacy! Not the first time he has done that either.
RESPONSE:

Actually, Mike555 gave a very poor answer, but one typically given by those who want to maintain the inerrancy of scripture and its literal historical accuracy in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Moses would not have known the names of the Edomite kings born long after his death, nor would he know the date when Israel would first have a king.

The Cinderella comparison is apt. Assertions are not evidence.

Also appropriate is the story of the preacher who announced that he would prove that God exists in his next sermon.

When Sunday came his church was packed. The preacher ascended the pulpit, opened his Bible, and announced we can be sure that God exists because the Bible says so!

That's another example of trying to use the bible to prove the accuracy of the Bible. Just like the Cinderella story, isn't it? []
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top