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Old 09-18-2012, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Texas and Arkansas
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No "Catholic Papacy" in all that now is there?
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
No "Catholic Papacy" in all that now is there?
Here is an excerpt from my own opening Post on my thread entitled:

"The Onslaught...The Crime of All Ages!!!...against the Seventh Day Sabbath...God's Holy Day!!!", dated:July 8, 2010:

[[[The Roman "Decretalia" states:

He can pronounce sentences and judgements in contradiction to the rights of nations, to the law of God and man...He can free himself from the commands of the apostles, he being their superior, and from the rules of the Old Testament.

...read that ^^^ again!

" He's a mighty man! He's mightier than God! He can do whatever he likes: "The Pope has power to change times to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things...even the precepts of Christ." Decretal De Translat. Episcop. Cap.

So!...don't listen to your Father in heaven - listen to me!......

2 Thesselonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

...he's "the 'other' guy!!!"...

"The Pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law; and of wrong make right, by correcting and changing laws." Pope Nicholas, Dist. 96. Quoted in "Facts For The Times" pg. 55-56. 1893.

...he can do whatever he likes...

Ask the Catholic Church which day is the Sabbath day...The correct Answer is: Saturday is the Sabbath Day...but you will not hear this from the Catholic Church.

...so, your Father said keep Saturday, but I'm telling you to observe Sunday!

Q: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Ans: Because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The Convert's Chatechism of Catholic Doctrine. 1957. pg. 50.

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH STRAIGHT OUT OF THE HORSES MOUTH! He says, you will not listen to your Father in heaven, you'll listen to me! Because I SAID SO!

He is attacking the authority of God!

YOU CANNOT ATTACK THE AUTHORITY OF GOD ON THE STRENGTH OF ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT - EXCEPT THE SABBATH! BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT DETERMINES THE AUTHORITY!

What is the mark of the beast then?...

"We have a seal of God which is a mark...SUNDAY is our mark of authority...the Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact!" Catholic Record. Sept. 1, 1923.

The mark of the beast is Sunday! The Church is above the Bible!

So we have 2 (two) marks on this earth - and the choice is ours!

Either we obey God...or we obey man.
****************************************
PART 3:

Satan has attacked the Sabbath because it is the seal of God's law, and it affects the authority of God.

"She [the Catholic church] took the pagan Sunday and made it the "Christian Sunday"..and thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday sacred to Jesus." (Catholic World, March 1894, pg. 809)...

...Balder is Baal!!!

"Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act, and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power." Faith of Our Father's (Cardinal Gibbons)...

...She [the Catholic church] says she's mightier than God on this issue!..."I don't care what laws God made, you will listen to me!" she says. This is REAL arrogance!

The Bible says, remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, "NO!"...so, who is this speaking?...oh!...It's Father Enright!...this is THE Catholic church's spokeman, he says the Bible says so, but the Catholic church says, NO!

"By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week [Sunday]. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church." Father Enright, American Sentinal. June 1893...

...Isn't this arrogant beyond measure...???!!!..it is SO ARROGANT it freaks me out!..."By my divine power...?!"...well...if that's their divine power, then it must be a different divine power than God's divine power...right? or wrong? There's another god on earth who sets himself up in the temple of God claiming to be God...so, we have 2 (two) that we are serving...of course, the Catholic church is not really God...it must have another power behind it. And the Bible says, "...And the dragon gave him his seat...and power...and great authority..." Those are very sad words...and I say...do not say them flippantly!

Pope Pius, 1566, commanded by Council of Trent. "It pleased the church of God that the religious celebration of the Sabbath day should be transferred to the Lord's day [Sunday]" Chatechismus Romanus, 1867, Chap. 3....

...over and over they say, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" Rev. 1:10. They say, "Well, the Lord's day is Sunday, it doesn't say what day it was..only the Bible can say which is the Lord's day."...and here it is>>Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable..."

So!...which is the Lord's day according to the Bible? The Sabbath! NOT! Sunday!

So!..."I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day - Rev. 1:10...doesn't seem to cut any ice as far as the Catholic church is concerned...so how about this?..." Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath!" (Mark 2:28)

Does that do away with the Sabbath?...or is it established who is in authority when it comes to the Sabbath? By the way, who created this world? Was it the Father?...or...was it through the Son? It was through the Son!!! Read John 1...In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God!...everything that was created on this world was created THROUGH HIM!...FOR HIM!...By His Word it stands!
***************************************
PART 4:

Bless Your Word Father, in Jesus name...open blind eyes and soften hardened hearts to receive Your truth...Amen.

Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath.

"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its cliams to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...(these are ALL! Catholic quotes!)...from the beginning to the end of Scripture, there is not a single passage which warrents the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day, the seventh day of the week [Saturday] to the first [Sunday]." Catholic Press (Sydney) August 25, 1900.

...They [the Catholic church] are straight forward in this!...

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday." James Cardinal Gibbons, "The Faith of Our Father's", pg 89.

The Catholic church is throwing up their hands and saying..."There! Take it or leave it! Choose!!!"...

"The Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is therefore, to this day, the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic church, as spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the protestant world." The Catholic Mirror. Sept 23, 1893.

So!...they say to the Protestants, "You say you're Protestants? Why do you ask then? If you obey us, then you're ours! Are you ours or not?"...The arrogance!!!...

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day [Saturday]. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic church." Albert Smith, Chancellor of The Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal in a letter dated February 10, 1920...(This is the Catholic church speaking! )

"Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Roman [Catholic] Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath." John Gilmary Shea, in the "American Catholic Quarterly Review." January 1883.

THIS IS REALLY ARROGANT!!!

"Not the Creator of the Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3, but the Catholic church "can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days!" S.C. Monta, "Storia della Dominica" 1969. pg. 366, 367.......It blows my mind!!!...This is just unbelievable!!!...This wasn't even stated in the middle ages!...this was stated in 1969!!!

...and this! should really clench it!...

"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives; either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity, and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.

THERE'S ^^^ THE BATTLE LINE!!!......

If you obey God, you keep Saturday!

If you obey the Catholic church, you're keeping Sunday!...you're really obeying the Pope! That doesn't mean that Protestants out there who have never heard this information, they have the "mark-of-the-beast!...they don't!...because God is judging them according to the light that they have...but this issue is going to become prominent!!! very, very soon!...because the present Pope has called for World Wide Sunday Legislation!!!......and your President has said, "We want to implement his teachings!"....interesting......!

So...now...why do Protestants keep on keeping Sunday?...what do they say?...do they know this?...YES!!! They DO!!! know it!...read for yourself!!!......

PROTESTANT TESTIMONY EPISCOPAL:

"Is there any commandment in the New Testament to change the day of weekly rest from Saturday to Sunday? None." Manual of Christian Doctrine. pg. 127. "We have made a change from the seventh day [Saturday] to the first day [Sunday], on the authority of the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ." Why We Keep Sunday' pg. 28.

...THEY KNOW!!!

PROTESTANT TESTIMONY LUTHERN:

"The observance of the LORD'S day (Sunday) is founded not on any commandment of God, but on the authority of the church." "The Augsburg Confession" In: "Catholic Sabbath Manual", part 2, section10.<<<THIS IS THE CENTRAL DOCUMENT FOR LUTHERANISM!

...THEY KNOW!!! o.k...what about the Presbyterian?

PROTESTANT TESTIMONY PRESBYTERIAN:

"A change in the day to be observed from the last day [Saturday] of the week to the first [Sunday]. There is no express commandment authorizing this change." N.L. Rice, "The Christian Sabbath", pg. 60.

...THEY KNOW IT!!! fine!...what about the Methodist?

PROTESTANT TESTIMONY METHODIST:

"Take the matter of Sunday...there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath [Saturday] to that day." H.F. Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942.

...THEY KNOW IT TOO!!!...what's going on here?!!?...what about the Congregationalists?

PROTESTANT TESTIMONY CONGREGATIONALISTS:

"IT IS QUITE CLEAR THAT HOWEVER RIGIDLY OR DEVOUTLY WE SPEND SUNDAY, WE ARE NOT KEEPING THE SABBATH. There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday." Dr. R.W. Dale, "The Ten Commandments", pg. 100, 101.
"Many people think that Sunday is the Sabbath, but neither in the New Testament nor in the early church, is there anything to suggest that we have any right to transfer the observance of the seventh day [Saturday] of the week to the first [Sunday]. Rev. Lionel Beere, "Church and People", Sept. 1, 1947.

...THEY KNOW!!!...o.k...what about the Baptist?

PROTESTANT TESTIMONY BAPTIST:

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday...There's no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh day [Saturday] to the first day [Sunday] of the week." Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, (author of The Baptist Manual) New York Ministers Conference, Nov. 13, 1893.

...SO THEY ALL KNOW!!! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM KNOW!!!

"Reverand Philip Garrington, Anglican Archbishop of Quebec, sent local clergymen into a huddle today by saying outright that there was nothing to support Sunday being kept holy. Carrington definately told a church meeting in this city of straightlaced protestantism that TRADITION!, NOT! the Bible, had made Sunday the day of worship." Toronto Daily Star, Oct. 26, 1949.

...SO!...TRADITION! PAGAN TRADITION! INTRODUCED BY ROME! KEPT IT!...so...now...what does their law say about THEIR "tradition"...?...let's read that...

"Almost all church's throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries (the Lord's Supper) on the Sabbath [Saturday] of every week...yet the Christian's of Alexandrea and at Rome, on account of some ANCIENT TRADITION!, have ceased to do this." Ecclesiastical History, book 5; ch.22; NPNF 2nd Series, V2, pg.132.

Now...Alexandrea is the one where all the pagan doctrines were introduced, this is where the Sadducees learned that there was no resurrection!...but that when you go to heaven, you go straight to Abraham's lap!!!...and Jesus said, "HEY!!!...What are you teaching here!?! There's NO SUCH THING!...

...SO!...Alexandrea and Rome are the seat of paganism!

Alexandrea taught ancient Egyptian gnostic histories, and, based on Cabolism...on gnosticism...ANCIENT TRADITION!

Well...Catholic record says...

..."Sunday is founded not on Scripture, but on TRADITION, and is a distinctly Catholic institution. Catholic Record, Sept. 17, 1893.
**************************************
PART 5:

Bless Your Word Father, in Jesus name...Amen.

"The New Testament makes no explicit mention that the Apostles changed the day of worship, but we know it from TRADITION. "The New Revised Baltimore Catechism (1949) pg. 139..<<<THESE ARE THE AUTHORITATIVE DOCUMENTS OF THE CHURCH!...AND IT'S ALL BASED ON TRADITION!...and the Bible says in Matthew 15:3,6,9...But He answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commanment of God by your TRADITION?...And you voided the commandment of God by your TRADITION?...But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men!...Jesus said this!...in Matthew!...read it again!....

...Can you do it?..yes?...or no?...can you substitute TRADITION! for OBEDIENCE?...NO!!!...YOU CANNOT!!!

"These people honor Me with their lips but their hearts are far from Me. They worship Me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men...And He said to them, 'You have a fine way of setting aside the commandments of God in order to observe your own TRADITIONS." MARK 7:7,9.

So...the Bible says one thing...Pope says another...and here we have the basis for conflict...and this basis for conflict is going to rise like a mushroom...and it's going to come to a head! very, very soon!

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scripture, because the church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday...not by the commandment of Christ...but BY IT"S OWN AUTHORITY." Canon and Tradition pg.263.

That's it! That's our choice! Whether we like it or whether we don't!

Acts 20:29,30 Jesus says this..."For I know this, that after My departure, grievous wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and out of yourselves will rise up men speaking perverted things, in order to draw away the disciples after themselves."...does anyone "see" this...?...it's so painfully clear...you have to be blind not to see what has happened to us...from the beginning...lies...lies...and more lies...!!!

THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

FIRST TEXT: Matthew 28:1 In the end of the Sabbath [Saturday], as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week [Sunday], came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. NEB (New English Bible):

...the Sabbath had passed and it was about daybreak on Sunday when Mary...

If you go to your churches, and you ask them, "Why do we keep Sunday?"...then there will be this scurry...and a flurry...and then there will be some Scriptural evidence brought forward or all the authoritive writers have said, "There is no! Scriptural authority for the transfer. Yet they (your church pastor, priest or elder...or most ANYONE! you tryto ask or talk to about it to!) will tell you there are text in the Bible which said that they worshipped on the first day of the week [Sunday], and therefore we worship on the first day of the week...OR!...they will say that Jesus abolished the Sabbath and nailed it to the cross and we no longer keep it on Saturday...(<<<THIS IS WHAT MY PASTOR TOLD ME WHEN I QUESTIONED HIM ABOUT THIS! ), therefore let no one judge you as to the Sabbath day...quoting Colossians and all those texts...OR!...they will say to you, "How do you know what the Sabbath is?...you know there's been so much time to learn, it really doesn't matter...observe it any day...all week...everyday... (<<<where have I heard this SO MANY TIMES...?...humm?)...


...WELL!...What day did GOD SAY! you MUST! observe? SABBATH DAY!!! SATURDAY!!!...]]]

Last edited by Verna Perry; 09-18-2012 at 04:08 AM..
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:56 AM
 
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OK, let's assume that we are supposed to observe the sabbath. What are we supposed to do on that day? Do absolutely no work for one thing. Get out and behold God's creation, visit the sick and those in prison. There is nothing about attending any sort of religious service. Go through your concordance for every instance of "sabbath" and study what was really supposed to be done on the sabbath. Now compare it with what your church does. Then think.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:03 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
OK, let's assume that we are supposed to observe the sabbath. What are we supposed to do on that day? Do absolutely no work for one thing. Get out and behold God's creation, visit the sick and those in prison. There is nothing about attending any sort of religious service. Go through your concordance for every instance of "sabbath" and study what was really supposed to be done on the sabbath. Now compare it with what your church does. Then think.
...correct Bideshi. Excellant advice.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:02 AM
 
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I'm glad I found out why the Bible directs us to worship God on the Sabbath, Saturn's Day. EL Elyon's day, "EL Elyon" being the Canaanite name for God Most High and their name for the planet Saturn. "Sabbath" is derived from the Hebrew word for "seven", as in the seven heavens where EL resided on the highest level, the 7th one, thus earning the name "God Most High". The ancients all relied on reading the gods intentions for humankind by linking astrological events to earthly ones. "As above, so below" was universally acknowledged in all ancient religions except Judaism, then Christianity following Judaism's lead, then Islam following it too. Jewish priests did not want to have competition from astrologers who were the professionals at prophesy and fortune-telling, the go-to-guys that kings used to tell them what to do do. They had more influence than high priests who could only rail against the use of astrology by their members with dire punishment (death) for going to the astrologers. But the Christian Jews did. What else were the Magi but astrologers. You cannot really understand Christianity without knowing its reliance on astrological archetypes. And once you dig down to the roots of Judaism and Christianity you find Judaism too is astrologically based. In this case, there's a very good astrological reason why Saturn would be important to the Messianic-Christ revelation. I'm new here and testing the waters so to speak if I can post foundational historical information here about my religion, Christianity, and not be run off for controversial posting.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:42 AM
 
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So why then are all these 1rst century believers worshiping on Sunday then and this is way before the Catholic church changes anything.


Ignatius of Antioch, A.D. 110


If those who have been brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., converted Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath but living in observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and his death … how shall we [i.e., Gentile converts] be able to live apart from him, when even the prophets themselves—also his disciples— waited for him in the Spirit as their Teacher? (Letter to the Magnesians 9)It is absurd to profess Christ and to Judaize. For Christianity did not believe into Judaism, but Judaism into Christianity. (Letter to the Magnesians 10)


Pseudo-Barnabas, A.D. 120 - 130
"He rested on the seventh day." This means that when his Son comes again, he shall destroy the wicked man, judge the ungodly, and change the sun, moon, and stars, and then he will truly rest on the seventh day.
In addition, he says, "You shall sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, anyone can now sanctify the day which God has sanctified except by being pure in heart in all things, then we are deceived. Behold, therefore, it is certain that we properly rest and sanctify it when we are able to work righteousness because we have received the promise and wickedness no longer exists because all things have been made new by the Lord. Then we shall be able to sanctify it because we are first sanctified ourselves.
Further, he says to them, "Your new moons and Sabbaths I cannot endure." You understand what he's saying. Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath I have made is. When I give rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day; that is, a beginning of another world. Therefore we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose from the dead. (Letter of Barnabas 15)
Letter to Diognetus, A.D. 80 - 200
But as to their meticulousness concerning foods, their superstition regarding the Sabbaths, their boasting about circumcision, and their fancies about fasting and the new moons--which are utterly ridiculous and unworthy of notice--I do not think you need to learn anything from me. For … to speak falsely of God, as if He forbad us to do what is good on the Sabbath days, how is not this impious? … And as to their observing months and days—as if waiting upon the stars and the moon—and their distributing according to their own tendencies the appointments of God and the vicissitudes of the seasons, some for festivities and others for mourning; who would deem this a part of divine worship and not much rather a manifestation of folly? (ch. 4)

Justin Martyr, c. A.D. 150
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place … Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world. On the same day, Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead. (First Apology 67)
Is there any other matter, my friends, in which we [Christians] are blamed [by the Jews] than this: that we do not live according to the Law, are not circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers were, and do not observe Sabbaths as you do? (Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew 10)
[Trypho, the Jew, speaking] This is what are most at a loss about. You [Christians], professing yourselves to be godly and supposing yourselves better than others, are not separated from them. You do not alter your way of living from that of the nations in that you observe no festivals or Sabbaths and do not have the right of circumcision. (Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew 10)
The new law requires you to keep perpetual Sabbath, and you [Jews], because you are idle for one day, suppose you are godly, not understanding why this command was given to you. if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances. If there is any perjured person or thief among you, let him cease to be so. If any adulterer, let him repent. Then he has kept the sweet and true Sabbaths of God. (Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew 12)
Theophilus, c. A.D. 170
The philosophers, writers, and poets … [spoke] concerning the seventh day, which all men acknowledge , but most do not know that what among the Hebrews is called the Sabbath is translated into Greek the "seventh." It is a name adopted by every nation, although they do not know the reason for the name. (To Autolycus III:12)
Irenaeus, A.D. 183 - 186
We learn from Scripture itself that God gave circumcision … as a sign. … Ezekiel the prophet says the same concerning the Sabbaths: "I gave them my Sabbaths to be a sign between me and them … " … These things, then, were given as a sign, but the signs were not lacking symbolism … since they were given by a wise Artist; the circumcision of the flesh typified that which was of the Spirit. … But the Sabbaths taught that we should continue day by day in God's service. … In addition, the Sabbath of God—that is, the kingdom—was indicated by created things. In this kingdom the man who has persevered in serving God shall, in a state of rest, partake of God's table. (Against Heresies IV:16:1)
Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 190
Plato prophetically speaks of the Lord's day in the tenth book of the Republic, in these words: "And when seven days have passed to each of them in the meadow, on the eighth they are to set out and arrive in four days." (Miscellanies V:14; I include this quote because it implies the Lord's day is the eighth day, or Sunday, rather than Saturday or the Sabbath.)
He … according to the Gospel, keeps the Lord’s day when he abandons an evil disposition and assumes that of the Gnostic [Clement believed that Christians were the true gnostics], glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself. (Miscellanies VII:12)
Tertullian, c. A.D. 200
We count fasting or kneeling in worship on the Lord's day to be unlawful. (De Corona 3)
The Holy Spirit upbraids the Jews with their holy days. "Your Sabbaths, new moons, and feasts," says he, "my soul hates" [Is. 1:14]. We—to whom Sabbaths are strange, and the new moons and festivals are formerly beloved by God—frequent the Saturnalia, New Year's, and Midwinter's festivals and Matronilia. (On Idolatry 14; This is a complaint about Christians, who wouldn't celebrate Jewish holidays, attending pagan celebrations.)
Others … suppose that the sun is the God of the Christians because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. (Ad Nationes 13)
We understand that God's law was before even Moses … subsequently reformed for the patriarchs [i.e., Israel's twelve sons] and so again for the Jews at definite periods. So we are not to give heed to Moses' Law as though it were the primitive Law, but as to a later, which at a definite time God set forth to the Gentiles, too, and—after repeatedly promising to do so through the prophets—has reformed for the better. …
Let us not annul the power God has to reform the Law's precepts in response to the circumstances of the time, with a view to men's salvation. To be specific, let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation … teach us that in the past righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision and were thus rendered friends of God.
… Since God originated Adam uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, therefore his offspring, Abel, was commended by [God] when he offered sacrifices both uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath. … Noah also—uncircumcised and, yes, inobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. Enoch, too, that most righteous man, while uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, [God] translated from this world. [Enoch] did not first taste death so that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might in our era show us that we may, without the burden of the Law of Moses, please God. (An Answer to the Jews 2)
The Jews say that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day by resting on it from all the works which he had made. … From this we Christians understand that we even more ought to observe a Sabbath from all servile work always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this the question arises for us, what Sabbath did God want us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a Sabbath eternal and a Sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, "Your Sabbaths my soul hates" [Is. 1:14] and in another place he says, "My Sabbaths you have profaned" [Ezek. 22:8]. From this we discern that the temporal Sabbath is human, and the eternal Sabbath is considered Divine.
Concerning this he predicts through Isaiah, "'And there shall be,' he says, 'month after month, day after day, and Sabbath after Sabbath, and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem,' says the Lord" [Is. 66:23, LXX]. We understand this to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ when all flesh—that is, every nation—came to adore, in Jerusalem, God the Father through Jesus Christ his Son. … Thus, therefore, before this temporal Sabbath there was an eternal Sabbath foreshown and foretold. (An Answer to the Jews 4)



-Im not trying to justify Sunday, but just wondering why so many of these leaders after the apostles worshiped on Sunday if everyone was still keeping the Sabbath after Jesus rose from the grave.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Default The Genesis 1 2 Gap

I couldn't even, as a Jew, participate in this conversation until the other day when I learned that Bible Scholars research The Genesis 1 2 Gap. I was horrified to learn that this is a real consideration scientifically today about the Bible.

So now I'm conflicted with every single person who reads the First Seven Days differently than I do. First of all I had an Orthodox Jewish Education 7-12YO but it was in a coed class. So that means that I was learning 3 languages at the same time. In public school I was learning printed and manuscript alphabetic writing, which really are two different alphabet management, and in Hebrew School (M-Th) I was learning Hebrew print and "manuscript" but the "manuscript" was still an alphabet where each character was surrounded by space. So for me now I realize that Hebrew was more completely of "movable" type construct, unlike English which was two different constructs: print and cursive. That's why I can consider Arabic is just like Gregg Shorthand .

I don't obey the divisions which are standardized when reading TaNaKh/Old Testament in any Bible. I consider there is no Gen 1 2 Gap. I think Gen:1-2:4 as a seamless gorgeous poetic poem using the chronology of 7 days. That's how I live my days as if in a nursing home in my condo looking out at my NorthEast horizon in my third floor condo. Together with my mini-poodle Baruch (Spinoza) who is aging with me.

So now it's imperative to me in these discussions how each of you read the first 7 days of the Bible.

I'll give you an example of how the truth can be manipulated in order to trick your minds.

My favorite universal Lingua Franca Bible came into existence last year:
Common English Bible (CEB) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

Look at how they present Genesis 2:4. Can you actually see the honesty of the manipulation?

Now I read it in Hebrew which for me is a language full of hormonal utterances. English is more sterile.

So it all depends on this simple trick, this literary device used by the copyrighters of any Bible document.
The copyrighters of the CEB, my comfortable conclusion, have done a wonderful job in translating from Hebrew because it's exactly how I translate the verses in Hebrew. But they can't do magician tricks on me.

So it is exactly the trick they published that determines everything about the subject of this thread as far as I'm concerned.

I think the entire Hebrew verses of Genesis 1-2:4 is a whole and cannot be separated out (no matter when they were constructed finally) and are perfectly scientific and rational today. They are perfectly good Common Sense in the 21st Century. That's because we have a week calendar ourselves. The Shabat is the first labor law ever in Western Civilization.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:28 AM
 
Location: US
28,015 posts, read 15,102,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macnietspingal View Post
I couldn't even, as a Jew, participate in this conversation until the other day when I learned that Bible Scholars research The Genesis 1 2 Gap. I was horrified to learn that this is a real consideration scientifically today about the Bible.

So now I'm conflicted with every single person who reads the First Seven Days differently than I do. First of all I had an Orthodox Jewish Education 7-12YO but it was in a coed class. So that means that I was learning 3 languages at the same time. In public school I was learning printed and manuscript alphabetic writing, which really are two different alphabet management, and in Hebrew School (M-Th) I was learning Hebrew print and "manuscript" but the "manuscript" was still an alphabet where each character was surrounded by space. So for me now I realize that Hebrew was more completely of "movable" type construct, unlike English which was two different constructs: print and cursive. That's why I can consider Arabic is just like Gregg Shorthand .

I don't obey the divisions which are standardized when reading TaNaKh/Old Testament in any Bible. I consider there is no Gen 1 2 Gap. I think Gen:1-2:4 as a seamless gorgeous poetic poem using the chronology of 7 days. That's how I live my days as if in a nursing home in my condo looking out at my NorthEast horizon in my third floor condo. Together with my mini-poodle Baruch (Spinoza) who is aging with me.

So now it's imperative to me in these discussions how each of you read the first 7 days of the Bible.

I'll give you an example of how the truth can be manipulated in order to trick your minds.

My favorite universal Lingua Franca Bible came into existence last year:
Common English Bible (CEB) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

Look at how they present Genesis 2:4. Can you actually see the honesty of the manipulation?

Now I read it in Hebrew which for me is a language full of hormonal utterances. English is more sterile.

So it all depends on this simple trick, this literary device used by the copyrighters of any Bible document.
The copyrighters of the CEB, my comfortable conclusion, have done a wonderful job in translating from Hebrew because it's exactly how I translate the verses in Hebrew. But they can't do magician tricks on me.

So it is exactly the trick they published that determines everything about the subject of this thread as far as I'm concerned.

I think the entire Hebrew verses of Genesis 1-2:4 is a whole and cannot be separated out (no matter when they were constructed finally) and are perfectly scientific and rational today. They are perfectly good Common Sense in the 21st Century. That's because we have a week calendar ourselves. The Shabat is the first labor law ever in Western Civilization.
Have you ever read 'Genesis by Dr. Henry Morris'?...
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:17 PM
 
27 posts, read 22,727 times
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The Jews were not alone in honoring Saturn's Day. Brahminism has a sun Brahma and a Saturn Brahma if memory serves. Shiva worship also Saturn worship as do the Sabeans, named for the Shiva, Saba, Seven, which is the root of Sabbath. All ancient cultures who shared the knowledge of where the Messianic/Christ anointing mythos is located in the heavens share respect for Saturn. The Egyptian's had a 30 year cycle festival dedicated to Saturn and the Sphinx shows Egyptians aware of the astrological knowledge pointing to the Ruler of Aquarius, Saturn. Saturn was the slowest of the Seven Planetary Rulers and so became an icon of "rest", and as I point out, not only just for Jews but other ancient peoples as well who didn't get the advantage of being the root of Western Civilization's main religion which promoted Jewish myths of origin as "real history" vs. other people's mythologies branded "pagan" even though they were talking about the same things.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:19 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,020,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
So why then are all these 1rst century believers worshiping on Sunday then and this is way before the Catholic church changes anything.

Tertullian, c. A.D. 200
The Holy Spirit upbraids the Jews with their holy days. "Your Sabbaths, new moons, and feasts," says he, "my soul hates" [Is. 1:14]. For the Scriptures point to a Sabbath eternal and a Sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, "Your Sabbaths my soul hates" [Is. 1:14] and in another place he says, "My Sabbaths you have profaned" [Ezek. 22:8]. From this we discern that the temporal Sabbath is human, and the eternal Sabbath is considered Divine.
Concerning this he predicts through Isaiah, "'And there shall be,' he says, 'month after month, day after day, and Sabbath after Sabbath, and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem,' says the Lord" [Is. 66:23, LXX]. We understand this to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ when all flesh—that is, every nation—came to adore, in Jerusalem, God the Father through Jesus Christ his Son. … Thus, therefore, before this temporal Sabbath there was an eternal Sabbath foreshown and foretold. (An Answer to the Jews 4)



I found these excepts from what you wrote very telling. The "sign" of the Sabbath has turned into the reality of a perpetual Sabbath in Christ day after day which encludes all days.
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