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Old 08-25-2012, 01:55 PM
 
Location: CentralAlabama
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Abraham was a Gentile and the Father of the nation of Israel (which are the descendants of Jacob whom God renamed Israel) and the Father of the Jews (which are descendants of the tribe of Judah) but he himself was neither Israelite not Jew. (later the name Jew was taken on by all of Israel)
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
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THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS WITH GOD who will render to every man according to his deeds.

"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" Romans 2:7

"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10

IN GOD'S JUDGMENT AGAINST SIN there is no respect of persons with God.

"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds ... But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ... For there is no respect of persons with God." Romans 2:5 - 11


Amen.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Texas
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"Respect of persons" means "the fault of one who when called on to give judgment has respect of the outward circumstances of man and not to their intrinsic merits, and so prefers, as the more worthy, one who is rich, high born, or powerful, to another who does not have these qualities" - Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

With that in mind, we can see that God does indeed respects the person that does good and is very indignant (no respect) towards the person that does evil. He very plainly says if you do good you get a good reward. He just doesn't respect a person in the way the world does.

But yes, at judgement do not expect your family, money, or social status to save you. This is the respect of persons that God does not have because there is no fault with God. This is a phrase we need our newer standard versions to change for us.

Now we can see that Abraham was judged by the law he was required to keep and not the Old Convent the Jews were required to keep.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
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.

The term, gentiles, means nations.

The vast majority of the Israelites had been scattered into Europe and Asia and had become nations [gentiles]
since the 8th century BC.

Jesus sent His disciples to find God's lost sheep [the term, sheep, refers to Israelites] and that is exactly what
they did - they went to Europe and Asia where the Israelites had been scattered and God's People, Israelites,
became Christians.

St Andrew Christianized the [Israelite] Slavs and Rus.


James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.



.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
.

The term, gentiles, means nations.

The vast majority of the Israelites had been scattered into Europe and Asia and had become nations [gentiles]
since the 8th century BC.

Jesus sent His disciples to find God's lost sheep [the term, sheep, refers to Israelites] and that is exactly what
they did - they went to Europe and Asia where the Israelites had been scattered and God's People, Israelites,
became Christians.

St Andrew Christianized the [Israelite] Slavs and Rus.


James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.



.
Amen!

I gave you +1 because your post is true. However, those nations did indeed have non Jews mixed in with them. In fact, some places in the NT do not say "gentiles" but instead it says "Greek". We know that not all the "house of Israel" was scattered, and we know that plenty of what would become Greeks were brought in to live in their place ("Greeks" can also only mean Greek speaking Jews who were really no longer considered Jews). This is only a fine point that I wish others would realize, so I'm not faulting you at all here. I'm actually trying to help with what you posted. God gave up the house of Israel only to save them later (like he promised) being called "Gentiles".

Truly no one can deny that our God loves his people! HE RESPECTS THOSE OF HIS PEOPLE THAT WILL DO GOOD!
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
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.



First one must understand who is Israel today [Israel = the descendants of the twelve sons of Jacob,
the twelve tribes of Israel.] And in order to understand that, one must be familiar with both Bible and
secular history.

Most of the twelve tribes of Israel were scattered into the "cites of the Medes" [northeast of Israel]
and beyond by the Assyrian empire in the 8th century BC. These Israelites were the northern tribes
of Israel, the Israelites God "divorced."

The southern tribes of Israel [Judah] were removed from Palestine by Babylon in the 6th century BC.
When Cyrus liberated them from Babylon, only a small portion of Judah returned to Jerusalem to rebuild
the temple [God's Anointed, Cyrus, had decreed their return and decreed the rebuilding of the temple.]

God [Jesus Christ] Israel's Messiah was incarnated in that small portion of Israel [Judah] that Cyrus
returned to Jerusalem.

When Jesus was born, the vast majority of the descendants of Israel had been in Europe and Asia for
centuries and had become "gentiles" [ie, "nations.]

Over a century before Christ was born, the Prince/High Priest of Israel [Judah] won a war against Edom
[the Edomites were the enemies of Israel throughout the OT.] Then the Prince/High Priest of Israel did
something very evil, something never done by Israel before. He forced the "conversion" of Israel's enemy,
Edom, and the Edomites became "jews." He was punished for this evil. His family dynasty was replaced
by the Edomite-jew, Herod.

At the time of Christ these Edomite-jews had taken over the palace [Herods] and the temple [Herod remodeled
the temple, tearing some of it down and adding to it - this remodeled temple is sometimes referred to as the
third temple, or Herod's temple.]

Jesus Christ said He came only to the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus said His sheep know Him and follow Him.
Jesus said those who do not know and follow Him are not His sheep [ie, not Israel.]

Jesus sent His disciples to seek out His lost sheep and that is exactly what they did, they went to Europe
and Asia, where the twelve tribes of Israel had been scattered centuries before; and Israelites became
Christians, leaving the unbelieving Edomites to carry on the title, "jews" [the synagogue of satan.]

St Andrew went to the Slavs and Rus [Israelites] and they became Christians.



.

Last edited by king's highway; 08-25-2012 at 06:15 PM..
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,192 posts, read 1,000,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
Jesus Christ said He came only to the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus said His sheep know Him and follow Him.
Jesus said those who do not know and follow Him are not His sheep [ie, not Israel.]

Jesus sent His disciples to seek out His lost sheep and that is exactly what they did, they went to Europe
and Asia, where the twelve tribes of Israel had been scattered centuries before; and Israelites became
Christians, leaving the unbelieving Edomites to carry on the title, "jews" [the synagogue of satan.]

St Andrew went to the Slavs and Rus [Israelites] and they became Christians.



.
I can't give you a +1 now The lost sheep were NOT the Gentiles (lost tribes in Europe and Asia).

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

The lost sheep was those who were still considered Jews. It was only when they went to the Gentiles that the northern tribes were to be saved and to entered back in. This is getting way off topic though. The OP is correct that Abraham was a gentile as far as the law is concerned. However, in reality he was a true Jew.

Israel (Jews) today are Christians. It was meant to be that way from the foundation of the world.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

At least we agree on that.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:18 PM
 
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Those He knew:

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Those He never knew:

Mat_7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

The Sand and the Saved (Remnant), the Sauls and the Pauls.

Rom_9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED;

So, with the above in mind how do the Gentiles believers relate?

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Israel was not abolished. The aliens were without (outside) Christ and the Commonwealth of Israel.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

How did the oneness take place. What happened to the Gentile? He was grafted INTO Israel. (No Israel, no graft)

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

We were aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel.

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[Col 1:12-13 KJV]

Messiah Annointed King of the Jews Jesus. Jesus is the Messiah, the King of the Jews.

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

The Israel of God is not a Gentile replacement. It is the One New Man of Chosen Jew and grafted in Chosen Gentile.


Shalom,
Thomas
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:21 PM
 
Location: CentralAlabama
173 posts, read 89,079 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS WITH GOD who will render to every man according to his deeds.

"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" Romans 2:7

"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10

IN GOD'S JUDGMENT AGAINST SIN there is no respect of persons with God.

"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds ... But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ... For there is no respect of persons with God." Romans 2:5 - 11


Amen.
What you posted deals with the status of the Gentile during this dispensation of Grace as reviled to Paul. I was making a point about something that happened a few thousand years prior to this.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,022 posts, read 907,853 times
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Understood Abraham was a Gentile.

What is key here is that God needed His offering (Recall Issac's substitute?) to be offered in behalf of all mankind.
The law was set down to achieve that exact purpose in that the nation of Israel were the chosen lot.
Starting with Moses and the temple, the priests were commissioned by God to officiate in the carrying out of the animal sacrifices for the covering of sins as a picture of the future sacrifice which would forgive sins.

Being chosen, as their lot, they were instrumental in carrying out God's desires innocently due to their zeal for the law of Moses.

Hence Jesus' words "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Not only are they all forgiven, but all of mankind as well.

You see, the Ram in the bush replaced Issac' death sentence as Jesus replaced our (all of us) eternal death sentence.

We were/are all forgive except for Jesus, He had to pay the price in our place.

So, technically, we are all Gentiles,for there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond or free, for all of us are one in Jesus.

For God so loved the world that He offered His Son for all of us to set us free.

We could, I mean could, acknowledge Jesus' sacrifice as ours and be blessed beyond measure, or not acknowledge Him and wait till the end of our earthly life to see Him as He is, missing out on the inner blessings of peace in a world of turmoil.

The choice is ours, freely given, no strings attached under unconditional love of God.

Blessings, AJ
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