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Old 09-12-2012, 08:50 AM
 
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The Good News is that through Christ only can we enter the Kingdom. If one does not have the person of Christ, he does not have the Kingdom but only an outward form of religion and no Power and Glory [Beauty of His Righteousness] of the Kingdom.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:38 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,270,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
The Good News is that through Christ only can we enter the Kingdom. If one does not have the person of Christ, he does not have the Kingdom but only an outward form of religion and no Power and Glory [Beauty of His Righteousness] of the Kingdom.
You know, I've thought quite a bit about this...and I've arrived at a somewhat different understanding.

I agree with you that entering into the Kingdom is only in Christ, through faith. However, the Kingdom, objectively speaking, is already within. And this is so for the ungodly and unbeliever too. Look here:

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Unbelievers (those not born of the Spirit) are simply unable to "see" the kingdom within them, and having no faith they are unable to "enter in".

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The kingdom is within, just not "seen" and "entered into" spiritually (subjectively that is), until faith. That is: Receiving the Gospel.

Anyway, just my thoughts here.

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 09-12-2012 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:06 AM
 
951 posts, read 782,628 times
Reputation: 74
[quote=AlabamaStorm;26057208]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Look what you're saying: "I try...", "I try...". I don't doubt that you are trying. And trying so for the wrong reasons. You're very much like Israel, trying to establish your own righteousness after the law.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

And the reason both you and Israel do so is that you've both stumbled at that stumblingstone: Christ.

Don't you see this? If you actually believe the Gospel, then you KNOW that keeping the commandments will not forgive you, justify or reconcile you to God.

Look at what the Gospel proclaims to YOU:

Your sins ARE forgiven - Christ died for YOUR sins.

You ARE justified - Christ is risen. Christ is justifying the ungodly. Right now. Present tense. Christ is justifying YOU.

You WERE reconciled to God - God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing YOUR sins against you.

That is the Good News of the Gospel. Those who believe the Gospel are imputed with Christ's righteousness.

Believe the Gospel my friend. Seek Christ's righteousness first.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

(Responding to the rest of your post would simply be fruitless at this point.)
No, your sins have cut you off from God. He doesn't correct you when you profane the Sabbath.

Isaiah 59:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

You accuse me of seeking righteousness when it is God who called me and specifically corrected me over the 7th Day Sabbath. You can't seem to deal with that. Your god lets you do whatever you please and that is called lawlessness.

Now, you have to be called by God first (John 6:44,65). All the scriptures you try to use will not apply to you unless God has called you out of this present evil world and you obviously are still in it. You keep all the pagan days of worship set up by the Beast Power in Rome. God never changed the Sabbath to the pagan Sunday! Never!

And you are still trying to tell me a false gospel just about the Person of Jesus Christ and not His actual Gospel of the Kingdom of God!

Wake Up!
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:07 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,270,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
That is an insult. I did read it and I explained it correctly as Luke pointed out in Acts 28:

Acts 28:
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Luke shows 2 things that Paul did: 1) Preached the Gospel that Christ preached concerning the Kingdom of God and 2) he taught those things concerning Christ.

Here is another:

Acts 8:
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Again, Luke shows 2 things that Philip preached: 1) the Kingdom of God 2) Christ.
This part of your post requires a separate response:

The word being translated as "and", between the two clauses, is taken from the Greek word καί: a copulative. The idea here is NOT division of the clauses into separate ideas and themes, but rather combining them into one thought, one context, one theme. That is: the clauses are being used cumulatively.

If you look closely at the words of Paul when proclaiming the Gospel, he too uses the copulative "and" (Greek: καί), just like Luke does:

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And (Greek: καί) that he was buried, and (Greek: καί) that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Here, Paul is not speaking of three separate Gospels, but rather one Gospel.

To make this point even more clear, the Greek word "καί" in the following verse is being used to describe only one animal, though two are mentioned using the word "and":

Mat 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and (Greek: καί) a colt the foal of an ass.

Here is that same verse translated (NASV) using the word "even", though it is the same Greek word καί:

Mat 21:5 "SAY TO THE DAUGHTER OF ZION, 'BEHOLD YOUR KING IS COMING TO YOU, GENTLE, AND MOUNTED ON A DONKEY, EVEN (Greek: καί) ON A COLT, THE FOAL OF A BEAST OF BURDEN.'"

Do you see this?
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:18 AM
 
951 posts, read 782,628 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
This part of your post requires a separate response:

The word being translated as "and", between the two clauses, is taken from the Greek word καί: a copulative. The idea here is NOT division of the clauses into separate ideas and themes, but rather combining them into one thought, one context, one theme. That is: the clauses are being used cumulatively.

If you look closely at the words of Paul when proclaiming the Gospel, he too uses the copulative "and" (Greek: καί), just like Luke does:

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And (Greek: καί) that he was buried, and (Greek: καί) that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Here, Paul is not speaking of three separate Gospels, but rather one Gospel.

To make this point even more clear, the Greek word "καί" in the following verse is being used to describe only one animal, though two are mentioned using the word "and":

Mat 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and (Greek: καί) a colt the foal of an ass.

Here is that same verse translated (NASV) using the word "even", though it is the same Greek word καί:

Mat 21:5 "SAY TO THE DAUGHTER OF ZION, 'BEHOLD YOUR KING IS COMING TO YOU, GENTLE, AND MOUNTED ON A DONKEY, EVEN (Greek: καί) ON A COLT, THE FOAL OF A BEAST OF BURDEN.'"

Do you see this?
No, you appear to be getting desperate now trying to look for a loophole in the Greek to save your false gospel about the Person of Christ versus the true Gospel -- Christ's actual Gospel message concerning the Kingdom of God.

The Feast of Trumpets is less than a week away and it pictures the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in action. Christ is coming to rule over this earth and the great spiritual fall harvest of human beings will begin after He returns.

You need to keep God's Sabbaths and Holy Days that outline God's Plan of Salvation to clean your mind of all these false doctrines and beliefs you have that have come from Satan the god of this world.

Again, I say, Wake Up!
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:34 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,270,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
You accuse me of seeking righteousness when it is God who called me and specifically corrected me over the 7th Day Sabbath..
Your confusing Herbert Armstrong with the scriptures. It was Herbert Armstrong that called you by his gospel. Not the Spirit of Christ who brings His Gospel in power, in the Spirit and with much assurance.

You indicated you believed Armstrong's gospel, here:

Quote:
Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong used to point this out over the air waves and he stated that his preaching of the Gospel is the first time in 18 1/2 centuries that the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God is being preached to the world.
As well as here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf
When God called me, He had someone hand me a booklet "Which Day Is the Christian Sabbath?" I read it and believed it...
Those rants are simply the teachings of a cult leader, believed by his followers. And, like Paul warned, are not to be believed:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Armstrong is laying in his grave, dead. Christ is alive, risen. Believe the Gospel my friend, not Armstrong.

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 09-12-2012 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:42 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,270,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No, you appear to be getting desperate now trying to look for a loophole in the Greek to save your false gospel...
Desperate?, loopholes??...lol...

I'm simply pointing out your ignorance, and using scripture to do so. Why does that offend you? It's not a loophole. It's simply knowing what scripture teaches, knowing what the text says. Does this trouble you?

False Gospel? Unlike Armstrong, I don't have my own Gospel. I've simply proclaimed the Gospel that Christ gave to Paul. And I proclaimed it to you. You simply did not believe it.

Anyway, this discussion is really not progressing. You're simply still under the law, as scripture tells me:

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:51 AM
 
2,531 posts, read 1,895,740 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
You know, I've thought quite a bit about this...and I've arrived at a somewhat different understanding.

I agree with you that entering into the Kingdom is only in Christ, through faith. However, the Kingdom, objectively speaking, is already within. And this is so for the ungodly and unbeliever too. Look here:

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Unbelievers (those not born of the Spirit) are simply unable to "see" the kingdom within them, and having no faith they are unable to "enter in".

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The kingdom is within, just not "seen" and "entered into" spiritually (subjectively that is), until faith. That is: Receiving the Gospel.

Anyway, just my thoughts here.
I totally agree. He is not far from anyone. Faith in Christ magnifys/resurrects what God already put there and adds to it to purify the soul and spirit. There is good in all men but because thay have eaten of the knowlege of good and evil, that evil part blinds one to "see" the purity of the Kingdom. Faith in Christ will destroy the sin blinds.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:01 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,270,295 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
I totally agree. He is not far from anyone. Faith in Christ magnifys/resurrects what God already put there and adds to it to purify the soul and spirit. There is good in all men but because thay have eaten of the knowlege of good and evil, that evil part blinds one to "see" the purity of the Kingdom. Faith in Christ will destroy the sin blinds.
There is a scripture that speaks to this very topic; especially with regards to how we are to "know" our fellow man, those created in the image of God, whether they be believers or unbelievers, under grace or under law:

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

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Old 09-13-2012, 03:19 AM
 
951 posts, read 782,628 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
You know, I've thought quite a bit about this...and I've arrived at a somewhat different understanding.

I agree with you that entering into the Kingdom is only in Christ, through faith. However, the Kingdom, objectively speaking, is already within. And this is so for the ungodly and unbeliever too. Look here:

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Unbelievers (those not born of the Spirit) are simply unable to "see" the kingdom within them, and having no faith they are unable to "enter in".

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The kingdom is within, just not "seen" and "entered into" spiritually (subjectively that is), until faith. That is: Receiving the Gospel.

Anyway, just my thoughts here.
Wrong!

Christ was in the midst of the Pharisees.

Luk 17: [RSV]
21 nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

Mr. Armstrong explains it in his booklet concerning the Kingdom of God.

Title: Just What Do You Mean...Kingdom of God?
Author: Herbert W Armstrong
Date: 1962, 1972
Type: Booklet
Type Media: PDF
http://www.cog-web-svc.com/hwa/books...df/kingdom.pdf
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