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When God decided to give man volition He had to allow man to make decisions which are contrary to His desires
Then God doesn't do all he desires. No matter how you try to phrase it, you and I both know that eternal punishment goes against his will/desire to save all of mankind. God works ALL things for the counsel of his will; Therefor his will/desire is first and foremost.
Eternal punishment does not nullify God's desire that all men be saved. God provided the means by which all men can be saved. But when God's provision for salvation is rejected, then eternal condemnation is the alternative. This is not difficult to understand.
I have explained and tried to make clear to you that God's desire is to resolve the angelic conflict using man's volition. You fail to understand that. I briefly explained the angelic conflict to you. But here is a much more thorough study on the angelic conflict >>> > The Angelic Conflict; the Spiritual Warfare I recommend that you read it.
Quote:
God only hardens the hearts of those who first harden their own heart
The story of Paul says otherwise.
God knew that Paul would respond positively and believe on Christ
God knew Paul would respond because God made paul respond. Paul's will was to kill the disciples Acts 9:1, but God changed Paul's will in a moment. It wasn't Paul's choice.
No, Paul's story does not say otherwise. And again I have already explained this. Paul simply responded to a dramatic gospel presentation given by Jesus Himself. God did not reach down and flip a switch in Paul's soul from negative to positive which would have violated his volition. God knew in eternity past that Paul would respond when he saw the resurrected Christ on the Damascus road.
Again, you should go into the study of the angelic conflict which I provided above. I have in my posts on this thread provided the information concerning the facts, but I can't make you understand or believe it.
Eternal punishment does not nullify God's desire that all men be saved. God provided the means by which all men can be saved. But when God's provision for salvation is rejected, then eternal condemnation is the alternative. This is not difficult to understand.
The natural man will not and is unable to respond to the Gospel....
John 16:8-11 says otherwise, as does Rev. 22:17. Man can resist the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51), or he can respond to it (Rev. 22:17). It is the Holy Spirit who makes the gospel understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever at the point of gospel hearing so that he can respond to it positively, or react to it negatively. The natural man cannot understand the things of God, but the natural man is not left on his own.
The Calvinistic view that man can not make a choice regarding the gospel is not Biblical.
Many choose to suppress the truth. They don't want to be answerable to God. But when the Holy Spirit convicts at the point of gospel hearing, many choose to respond to that conviction (John 16:8-11).
Anyone who wishes can come to Christ in response to the call of the gospel (Rev.22:17).
John 16:8-11 says otherwise, as does Rev. 22:17. Man can resist the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51), or he can respond to it (Rev. 22:17). It is the Holy Spirit who makes the gospel understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever at the point of gospel hearing so that he can respond to it positively, or react to it negatively. The natural man cannot understand the things of God, but the natural man is not left on his own.
The Calvinistic view that man can not make a choice regarding the gospel is not Biblical.
Well, John 16:8-11 says nothing regarding what I stated...Neither does Rev. 22:17...Nor Acts 7:51...
But this is interesting:
Romans 3:9-10 and 18. "I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written: None is righteous, no not one; no one seeks for God....There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Romans 8:7-8 "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
Many choose to suppress the truth. They don't want to be answerable to God. But when the Holy Spirit convicts at the point of gospel hearing, many choose to respond to that conviction (John 16:8-11).
Anyone who wishes can come to Christ in response to the call of the gospel (Rev.22:17).
Rev 22:17 is not in regards the gospel call, it regards those who have been sealed...
I'm not sure John 6:29 is so obviously merely descriptive, but rather seems to be a bit proscriptive.
I think it's reasonable to read it as Jesus dismissing an attitude of trying to work your way into eternal life through human activity. Instead he answers that the "work" they needed to do was to believe, and not be worrying about specific actions. I could see Jesus using little quote marks with his fingers when he says work.
As long as one understands that when Jesus is "using little quote marks with his fingers" it is understood the significance of:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.
Grace, having been saved, faith .... is not from yourself
Grace, having been saved, faith .... is not because "Man is indeed responsible to make the right decision"
Decision theology "Man is indeed responsible to make the right decision " is a boastful claim that points to yourself .... " I made the right decision"
Scriptures only speak of a person chosing to reject..
Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’ ?
Mark 8:31
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.
Luke 6:22
Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)
Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me
Careful reading will show that Paul approaches this from the same perspecive ... not from people chosing to accept but from people chosing to reject:
Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.
Titus 1:14
... pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth.
Hebrews 10:28
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Yes. It is, indeed, the work of God. Philippians 1:6 speaks also of this "work":
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
The phrase in the OT "God's chosen people" does not mean that God gave Abraham a bunch of facts for Abraham to "indeed responsible to make the right decision"
There is a reason why it is phrased that children of Israel were a "chosen" people.
And unlike the other falsehood (OSAS), the people of Israel made use of their ability to reject.
The phrase in the OT "God's chosen people" does not mean that God gave Abraham a bunch of facts for Abraham to "indeed responsible to make the right decision"
There is a reason why it is phrased that children of Israel were a "chosen" people.
And unlike the other falsehood (OSAS), the people of Israel made use of their ability to reject.
You people are still forgetting Pharoah....
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