Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Talk is cheap. I assess people by the fruit of the Holy Spirit, not just the words they utter. Words in God's name can be destructive though - just look at what has transpired across the globe in the last few days because a "Christian" insisted on his right to insult someone's belief system. I'm growing very tired of the attitude that as Christians we have the RIGHT to purposely offend others. It stinks and God knows it stinks.
Look at it this way: Why wouldn't you stand up for Christ in public? To not stand up for Christ is to deny Him.
What would it take for you to deny Christ? Would you do it to save your job? To avoid being called an intolerant bigot full of hate or a Jesus freak? How about to avoid being ridiculed by friends and family? To get a date or a job? Every day there are situations where those who profess to know Christ willingly denying Him for their own comfort or gain.
Christians are killed for their faith all over the world. Right this very minute. They choose death over denying Him.
Are you ashamed or embarrassed of the gospel? Then think of Luke 9:26, "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
The world is trying to force Christians into silence by screaming at us, telling us that we “offend” people of other faiths, or no faith, by talking about our Jesus. We're told not to say anything negative about anyone, anything or any religion. Yet, these same people rage against Christianity in the most vicious and hypocritical ways. Will you be silenced and stand idle in the pathway of sin?
Isaiah 1:17, "Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
The entire bible declares Christians to actively stand up and speak for Christ. Christianity is faith-driven. It requires acting on our beliefs, not just believing them. After all, even the demons believe in Jesus and yet they're going to hell.
The fruit of being a true Christian is our changed nature and acting more LIKE Christ. Not just like someone who quietly believes in Him. We say what He said. We do what He did. We are becoming more like Him daily. If we're not, we need to examine our lives and see if we really are of Him.
So, the simple answer: The whole Bible. We willingly stand up for Christ in public because we love Him. And because He is the gospel and the only way to God. And to NOT stand up for Christ is to deny Him and is not loving to those who need Him.
Mark Chapther 10:
35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came over and spoke to him. “Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do us a favor.”
36 “What is your request?” he asked.
37 They replied, “When you sit on your glorious throne, we want to sit in places of honor next to you, one on your right and the other on your left.”
38 But Jesus said to them, “You don’t know what you are asking! Are you able to drink from the bitter cup of suffering I am about to drink? Are you able to be baptized with the baptism of suffering I must be baptized with?”
39 “Oh yes,” they replied, “we are able!”
Then Jesus told them, “You will indeed drink from my bitter cup and be baptized with my baptism of suffering. 40 But I have no right to say who will sit on my right or my left. God has prepared those places for the ones he has chosen.”
41 When the ten other disciples heard what James and John had asked, they were indignant.
42 So Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them.
43 But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant,
44 and whoever wants to be first among you must be the slave of everyone else.
45 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Look at it this way: Why wouldn't you stand up for Christ in public? To not stand up for Christ is to deny Him.
What would it take for you to deny Christ? Would you do it to save your job? To avoid being called an intolerant bigot full of hate or a Jesus freak? How about to avoid being ridiculed by friends and family? To get a date or a job? Every day there are situations where those who profess to know Christ willingly denying Him for their own comfort or gain.
Christians are killed for their faith all over the world. Right this very minute. They choose death over denying Him.
Are you ashamed or embarrassed of the gospel? Then think of Luke 9:26, "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
The world is trying to force Christians into silence by screaming at us, telling us that we “offend” people of other faiths, or no faith, by talking about our Jesus. We're told not to say anything negative about anyone, anything or any religion. Yet, these same people rage against Christianity in the most vicious and hypocritical ways. Will you be silenced and stand idle in the pathway of sin?
Isaiah 1:17, "Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
The entire bible declares Christians to actively stand up and speak for Christ. Christianity is faith-driven. It requires acting on our beliefs, not just believing them. After all, even the demons believe in Jesus and yet they're going to hell.
The fruit of being a true Christian is our changed nature and acting more LIKE Christ. Not just like someone who quietly believes in Him. We say what He said. We do what He did. We are becoming more like Him daily. If we're not, we need to examine our lives and see if we really are of Him.
So, the simple answer: The whole Bible. We willingly stand up for Christ in public because we love Him. And because He is the gospel and the only way to God. And to NOT stand up for Christ is to deny Him and is not loving to those who need Him.
My life should show the presence of the Spirit and my works should draw people to Christ. That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about gathering up at Chick-Fil-A or down at the courthouse or the schoolhouse and agitating for "Christian" laws. Where did Christ tell us to do that?
Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Which commandment of his instructs us to do the kinds of things I mentioned?
My life should show the presence of the Spirit and my works should draw people to Christ. That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about gathering up at Chick-Fil-A or down at the courthouse or the schoolhouse and agitating for "Christian" laws. Where did Christ tell us to do that?
Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Which commandment of his instructs us to do the kinds of things I mentioned?
Exactly. Jesus never hinted that we should go out of our way to offend others or cause strife. Those who do so in the name of God are misguided and lacking in humility.
Jesus said In Matthew 10: 32-33....``Who so ever will confess me before men , him will I confess also before my Father which is in Heaven.....But who so ever will deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven...``..... See it is expected to confess to be Christian and be a follower of Lord Jesus Christ , there is nothing wrong about that , but the influences of the dark spirit of this world will not like it at all..... Even Simon Peter rejected Jesus Christ right before the cross of Jesus Christ before the rooster crow,..... Were Peter was under the fear of death to confess Jesus then , and later Jesus forgave Peter and told Him the `Feed my sheep` or be a teacher of Christ..... See there is a Worship of Spirit and Truth called `Fortitude ` which believer honor the Lord by confessing Jesus and abiding under the Lord wing by faith even in the public view........... But spreading hate and indifference is out of the character and will of God
My life should show the presence of the Spirit and my works should draw people to Christ. That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about gathering up at Chick-Fil-A or down at the courthouse or the schoolhouse and agitating for "Christian" laws. Where did Christ tell us to do that?
Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Which commandment of his instructs us to do the kinds of things I mentioned?
Thanks for the clarification. That distinction makes a world of difference. I'm going to lay out my whole point on this because most people aren't going to like it. People don't like not being in control or having the power. (That's rebellion, by the way.)
So the question, as cliche as it is, is really this: What would Jesus do?
Was Jesus an agitator or a revolutionary? Did he form groups bent on bringing political or social change by pressuring others? Did he seek to enforce His standards on those who did not want to follow Him?
Jesus lived in a country where pagans were in power. Romans ruled the streets of Jerusalem, the holy city. Did Jesus urge people to usurp them? No. He didn't threaten to do it or instruct his disciples to resist and overthrow them.
Remember Simon the Zealot? Well, Zealots were people who plotted riots and violence to get rid of the vile Romans! Simon had to learn that this behavior wasn't the way of Jesus. Their laws were unjust and cruel but Jesus remained silent about it all. Not once is there an example of Jesus being in direct conflict with the Roman government (except at His final trial when false accusations were made at Him).
Remember the question about Roman taxation? Jesus didn't go into how the government should limit the amounts and frequency of their taxation. His instructions were about the commands of God upon His people. "Render unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's and unto God the things which be God's" (Luke 20:25).
Even John the Baptist advised Roman soldiers to "Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages" (Luke 3:14).
Because the Gospel Jesus taught concerned the Kingdom of God. A completely new order of things which God has promised to establish in the world. Jesus' message was a call to repentance. "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3,5).
Consider the Sermon on the Mount (Jesus' example that He lived):
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. (Matthew 5:38-42).
Roman soldiers had the right to ask any Jew to carry his pack for one mile. Jesus said for them to offer to carry it for two miles.
The Sermon on the Mount continues:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 4:43-45)
These words don't reflect agitation, retaliation, protest and violence. The disciples' behavior wasn't supposed to be dictated by any person, but by God only. Christians are directed, not by circumstances or other people, but by the commands of our Father. A believer's behavior is determined by God and His Son, not circumstance (good or bad)
God ordained government, both good and bad. No one is ever in authority without God appointing them. We are all called to obey those in authority.
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves." (Romans 13:1-2)
Christians are called to seek and pursue peace (Psalm 34:14 and 1 Peter 3:11).
Christians are called to follow peace with all men (Romans 14:19 and Hebrews 12:14)
Romans 12:18 says, "If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men."
Our responsibility to be peacemakers in the home, at work, or among the people we meet does not necessarily give us license to put pressure on those in authority.
Someone is sure to use as a defense that Jesus got angry, rebuked the scribes and Pharisees, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers. Jesus' action, as the Son of God, was directed at abuses within the religious system, and in regard to his Father's house. It wasn't a campaign for secular causes.
The teachings of Jesus and His disciples was to turn away from violence and to respect and obey all the laws of our authorities (unless those laws contradict God's laws). Protesting is a form of assertiveness and pressuring authorities. Even if it's a peaceful protest.
This is really hard for people to understand but God has sound reasons behind these commands.
Despite appearances, God is in control and is active in the affairs of men and nations. The Bible makes it plain...
"Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,
For wisdom and might are His.
And He changes the times and the seasons;
He removes kings and raises up kings;
He gives wisdom to the wise
And knowledge to those who have understanding."
-- Daniel 2:20,21.
‘This decision is by the decree of the watchers,
And the sentence by the word of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men,
Gives it to whomever He will,
And sets over it the lowest of men.’
-- Daniel 4:17.
Governments and rulers are appointed by God, whether good or bad. God is working out His righteous and ultimate purpose by using the people and things at hand among sinful men. Nothing is beyond or out of His control. This might be an OT teaching but it is repeated even more strongly in the NT.
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves." (Romans 13:1-2)
These words were written to believers in Rome - a pagan empire. The Christian wasn't to seek to change the government. Protest, agitation and subversion were out of the question. To resist the government is to resist God's appointment. It's not a question of whether the government is good or bad because God is in control and aren't supposed to resist His ordinance.
You can choose whether or not to continue eating at Chik Fil A or not to. And you can always use your vote. But, I see no biblical instructions or examples to protest.
The teachings of Jesus and His disciples was to turn away from violence and to respect and obey all the laws of our authorities (unless those laws contradict God's laws).
Your post has summarized my beliefs on the subject quite thoroughly. We agree on all of that except the part quoted above.
I can find no instances in scripture where disobeying secular laws which are contrary to God's laws is acceptable...EXCEPT in instances where the law prevents one from practicing their religion. Daniel and the Disciples Peter and John come readily to mind. In the first instance, Daniel was forbidden from worshipping God and, in the other, they were told not to preach the Gospel. They disobeyed the law and willingly suffered because of it.
However, to extrapolate from that a right to ignore or disobey laws which contradict God's laws is a stretch too many people make. That idea is behind the very kinds of things this thread is about, but there does't seem to be any biblical justification for it.
Yes, as free citizens of a free country, we have the right to agitate for change, but to wrap it in the cloak of Christ is contrary to the Scriptures. At least, to me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
