Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-28-2012, 08:16 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,603,626 times
Reputation: 3769

Advertisements

As soon as someone says you "can't" do something, than they have missed the point of what the Lord wants from us. They have slipped into legalism...

God does not want a list of do's and don'ts. He wants us to obey from the heart. He wants us to do in voluntarily demonstrating our love for him. This is the Liberty we have in Christ, and it is precious.

One of my family members attends an Assembly of God. They believe in an Arminian distorted view of Grace. Saved by Grace and Kept by Works. Those that don't endure to the end lose their salvation. The result is what it always is with legalistic doctrine, a focus on self and a lifted up spiritual pride better than thou self righteous attitude. It does not give peace but gives the spirit of fear not peace and love. It leads to a hardened heart. God doesn't want this. Our faith is based on Hope. We need the helmet of Salvation knowing where we stand in Christ.. independent of our efforts to deserve it..but entirely on HIS merit through faith in Him and His works.

Grace is unmerited.. no one can earn or deserve it. Inheritance is another thing. Many can lose their inheritance just as Esau, Reuben, etc due to unfaithfulness. It is said Grace is God's answer to man's Pride.

Christians have LIBERTY in Christ. All things are "Lawful", but not all things are expedient. This Liberty is precious and it is what Christ purchased for his church and we are instructed to stand fast in our Liberty in Christ.

I've been contemplating whether or not I will even attend their AOG service when I'm in town. On one hand, I do not want to be devisive. On the other hand, I do not like being around that type of environment of bondage. Paul doesn't deal with unity within the body until a solid foundation of doctrine has been laid (ephesians).

Christianity is not a list of do's and don'ts.. It's not about making one a better person.. It's about making them a new person with a new heart.

If one that is Saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus ends up attempting to keep his salvation by not sinning than I do believe these works will be burnt on Judgement day. Moses was instructed to speak to the Rock the second time in the wilderness but struck it. He misrepresented God. God was not angry. Upon speaking water/Grace flows freely.

We must be very careful not to misrepresent God. Moses didn't enter the Promise Land because of it.

God's Freely given Grace and purchased Liberty through Jesus Christ is God's demonstration of his loving kindness and LOVE for us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-28-2012, 09:22 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,918,197 times
Reputation: 595
- Well said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2012, 07:15 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
As soon as someone says you "can't" do something, than they have missed the point of what the Lord wants from us. They have slipped into legalism...

God does not want a list of do's and don'ts. He wants us to obey from the heart. He wants us to do in voluntarily demonstrating our love for him. This is the Liberty we have in Christ, and it is precious.

One of my family members attends an Assembly of God. They believe in an Arminian distorted view of Grace. Saved by Grace and Kept by Works. Those that don't endure to the end lose their salvation. The result is what it always is with legalistic doctrine, a focus on self and a lifted up spiritual pride better than thou self righteous attitude. It does not give peace but gives the spirit of fear not peace and love. It leads to a hardened heart. God doesn't want this. Our faith is based on Hope. We need the helmet of Salvation knowing where we stand in Christ.. independent of our efforts to deserve it..but entirely on HIS merit through faith in Him and His works.

Grace is unmerited.. no one can earn or deserve it. Inheritance is another thing. Many can lose their inheritance just as Esau, Reuben, etc due to unfaithfulness. It is said Grace is God's answer to man's Pride.

Christians have LIBERTY in Christ. All things are "Lawful", but not all things are expedient. This Liberty is precious and it is what Christ purchased for his church and we are instructed to stand fast in our Liberty in Christ.

I've been contemplating whether or not I will even attend their AOG service when I'm in town. On one hand, I do not want to be devisive. On the other hand, I do not like being around that type of environment of bondage. Paul doesn't deal with unity within the body until a solid foundation of doctrine has been laid (ephesians).

Christianity is not a list of do's and don'ts.. It's not about making one a better person.. It's about making them a new person with a new heart.

If one that is Saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus ends up attempting to keep his salvation by not sinning than I do believe these works will be burnt on Judgement day. Moses was instructed to speak to the Rock the second time in the wilderness but struck it. He misrepresented God. God was not angry. Upon speaking water/Grace flows freely.

We must be very careful not to misrepresent God. Moses didn't enter the Promise Land because of it.

God's Freely given Grace and purchased Liberty through Jesus Christ is God's demonstration of his loving kindness and LOVE for us.

Exactly my experience with them! "An Arminian distorted view of Grace" and a two step walk to salvation. They seem never really sure of their salvation and use works to prove how holy they are.
My kids went to an AG school for 2 years and the place was so lacking in Grace.

I recently visited a Four Square Church while on vacation. I am not looking to convert but I'd never visited one and since I am doing this research and I wanted to worship, I thought I would attend.

BIG DIFFERENCE! Especially in the treatment of women. Much more grace filled preaching and I could feel the spirit of God there.

They were not as externally hip or cool as the A/G, but much more down to earth and Christlike. Less snobbish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2012, 01:48 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,603,626 times
Reputation: 3769
I just want to add regarding the submission of wives to husbands, there is an order that God has ordained. As the woman is in subjection to the husband the husband is subjection to Christ as Christ is in subjection to the Father. If the man is not ruled by Christ than the establish order breaks..

God does not intend for a daughter in Christ to be subject to abuse. No woman would mind being under the subjection of a man that is truly being ruled by Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2012, 07:49 PM
 
63,470 posts, read 39,739,901 times
Reputation: 7793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
I just want to add regarding the submission of wives to husbands, there is an order that God has ordained. As the woman is in subjection to the husband the husband is subjection to Christ as Christ is in subjection to the Father. If the man is not ruled by Christ than the establish order breaks..
The scholarship establishing the chauvinistic origins of the Bible canon and the exclusion of any reference to the role of women as Christ's disciples is no longer in question. Those who retain such ancient ignorance simply wish to perpetuate the chauvinism, period. It has nothing to do with God or Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2012, 08:10 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67811
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The scholarship establishing the chauvinistic origins of the Bible canon and the exclusion of any reference to the role of women as Christ's disciples is no longer in question. Those who retain such ancient ignorance simply wish to perpetuate the chauvinism, period. It has nothing to do with God or Christ.
I know. And so they should also not mix fibers, eat pork and keep a beard cut in a certain way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2012, 08:17 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,918,197 times
Reputation: 595
Wives submitting to their own husbands as unto The Lord?
Is so husbands can take care of their wives as they take care of their own body.
As Christ is the Saviour of His Own Body The Church. - Ephs.5

But those who are of Christ's Body The Church? There is neither Male nor Female.

1Cor.11 - Paul was wanting them to 'Keep The Traditions", of headship and coverage of men and women.
Judging among themselves what was 'Proper for women' about customs.

Christ is The Head of His Church and His Church is not men.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2012, 11:14 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67811
My question was the differences between different Pentecostal denominations.

Just so we do not get off topic.

It seems the most conservative and restrictive are the Apostolic Pentecostals. Could some one rank the other bodies for me? Reasons for their rankings would be appreciated. Blessings!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2012, 10:00 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67811
Still trying to collect information about this subject. Does anyone from these denominations have anything to say?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2012, 03:41 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,861,141 times
Reputation: 152
I can't tell you which church to go to, but I gotta warn you not to go to a Pentecostal nor Charismatic church either.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

They all will have a focus solely on the Holy Spirit in the worship place regularly as other denomenations do it eventually on occasions, whenever supernatural phenomeon makes it way in to steal the spotlight off of the "Holy Spirit" to themselves with their visitations.

That is why the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself in seeking His own glory, but of the Son in seeking His glory as those led by the Holy Spirit will be doing the same thing.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

The reason why "holy laughter" had occured in other denomenations like the Catholic and Protestant churches was because they ignored how they were to come to God the Father in worship in getting to know Him personally:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

As approaching God the Father by way of the Son in worship by honouring and glorifying the Son ONLY and thereby honouring and glorifying the Father is what every believer and every church will be judged by.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

That is what the Holy Spirit, Whom is God, in us is leading us to do: to honour the Son in seeking His glory and by Him, honouring and glorifying the Father in the process.

The Father is not honoured nor glorified by honouring and glorifying the Holy Spirit in its "visitation of signs and lying wonders" which is proof that it is not the Holy Spirit when in according to our faith, He is in us as promised by faith and not by sight.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Nowadays, if any believer or church experienced a visitation of the "Holy Spirit" where believers "feel" the presense in the worship place and coming over them, they believe every spirit, thus not even testing them to see if they are of God or not. The fact that they feel the spirit coming over them again and again and again proves it is not of God.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.... 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The irony is lost to those that have gone astray because if these are not seducing spirits in these "holy laughter" movement which is mainly a Pentecostal/ Charismatic streamlined event, occurs in Catholic and Protestant churches, what is?

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Many will tell you that they believe the Spirit is in them, but yet preach and seek to receove the Spirit again as if they had not received Him, ignoring this warning from Paul:

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Or from Jesus about the fruit of a false prophet:

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The churches have broadened the way by including the Holy Spirit to be addressed and worshipped along with the Father and the Son: which is stepping outside of the will of God and what the Holy Spirit in them is not leading them to do.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The fact that it is ecumenical in nature proves it is a fruit of the false prophet.

That is why to avoid this inqiuity is by keeping your eyes on our forst love, the Son Whom is called the Bridegroom for a reason: Jesus Christ is how we are personal with God the Father. Luke's version of the warning from Jesus gave this solution to avoid this iniquity.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

May those that have gone astray shun vain and profane babblings and return to their first love by His grace and by His help as Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd as well as the Saviour.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top