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Old 09-25-2012, 09:11 AM
 
951 posts, read 799,244 times
Reputation: 74

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Esther 1:
10 On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,
11 To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.
12 But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.
13 Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:
15 What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?
19 If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him...That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.

King Ahasuerus was a Gentile king and he commanded Vashti to come in his presence on the seventh day of a feast. She refused to perform the commandment of the king. She was eventually replaced by Esther.

How many of you are refusing to come before the King of kings and Lord of lords on the Seventh Day? It, too, is a Commandment given to us by a great King!

If you are a true Christian and you keep Sunday instead and refuse the King's Commandment (it was Jesus Christ who spoke the Ten Commandments at Mt Sinai) and worship on some other day then your crown will be given to someone better than you!

Wake Up, America! We need to worship God and the King of king and Lord of lords on the day He commanded us to worship God on -- the Seventh Day Sabbath! It's time we quit acting like Vashti and start acting like Esther!

Again, Wake Up!!!

Last edited by tthttf; 09-25-2012 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 878,326 times
Reputation: 293
I will not debate on this but think on this. The law and all the physical rituals were SHADOWS OF GOOD THINGS TO COME. Until the reality came, the shadows were a comfort. But NOW, the reality has come and we no longer need the shadow. Would you rather live in the shadow of a mansion, or the mansion itself? CHRIST was FORESHADOWED by every one of the types, including many of the main characters in scripture. Paul said the law was a schoolmaster, some even say child leader (a servant who guided his master's children to the place of the lessons), but once the object of the lessons was come, the servant was no longer needed.

The law was and is and will always be something which shows the heart of God. It speaks to restitution for wrongs done to an individual to restore both the victim and the offender. Where it is/was mpossible for a crime to be righted in this life, the offender was executed to await the judgment of God. Judgment will include restoration of BOTH parties and the judgment will be PERFECT. Scripture tells us God will replace our stony heart (THE LAW was written on tablets of stone) with a flesh heart and we will do and perform His will out of a heart of love, not in fear.

Vashti was not executed by the King for her failure to appear. The King replaced her with another, Esther. Did not Jesus say that the first would be last, that the Jews who were so sure of their place in the Kingdom on account of their devotion to the Law would be replaced by gentiles and peoples from the east and the west?

The sabbath IS Jesus. He is our rest. The seventh day speaks not only of One day out of the week, but of a special age where we will rest in Him. But we can rest in Him now. In fact we are to rest in Him. This is spiritual rest. It is God who wills in you to desire and to do His will. It is God who IS still working on man, of whom Jesus is the first finished Son, the pattern Son, if you will and ALL will be made into His likeness, in their own order. The feast days speak of a progression. Firstfruits (barley, main harvest ((wheat) and finally the end, the fall harvest (grapes).

From chm2web Web Online Help

an article by Seth Tipton entitled, "Just What Happened on that Cross?"

2 Corinthians 3:7-9 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Pop quiz: which regulations in the Law of Moses were "carved in letters on stone?" That's right, those 10 Commandments were the ONLY ones recorded in the Bible to have been carved into stone. The completion of the Law was recorded by scribes in ink. According to the Bible, the 10 Commandments are a ministry of death. And according to him, this is the same "ministry of death" which was "being brought to an end." Have you ever heard a preacher say that?
Italics miine. end of quote

He did not quote verse 10, which says, "Indeed, in view of this fact, what ONCE HAD SPLENDOR (the glory of the Law in the face of Moses) has come to have NO SPLENDOR AT ALL, because of the overwhelmeing glory that exceeds and excels it (the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ). 11 For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
(Amplified Version)(Bold, italics, and all caps portions inserted by me)

Lest you think that this author is one that declares the way to the Kingdom through grace is easy, he does not. He writes that the cross Jesus suffered is the way that ALL must go to have victory over sin and death.

He has a different perspective on grace. He does not portray it as some easy forgiveness offer but as that which will chastise us when we fall into error.

I would recommend anyone who thinks we are still under the Law to read this. Also anyone who thinks grace turns a blind eye to the times we still sin.

Peace to all, and may the God of all comfort be with us in our journey to and from the Cross.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,233,863 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Esther 1:
10 On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,
11 To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.
12 But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.
13 Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:
15 What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?
19 If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him...That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.

King Ahasuerus was a Gentile king and he commanded Vashti to come in his presence on the seventh day of a feast. She refused to perform the commandment of the king. She was eventually replaced by Esther.

How many of you are refusing to come before the King of kings and Lord of lords on the Seventh Day? It, too, is a Commandment given to us by a great King!

If you are a true Christian and you keep Sunday instead and refuse the King's Commandment (it was Jesus Christ who spoke the Ten Commandments at Mt Sinai) and worship on some other day then your crown will be given to someone better than you!

Wake Up, America! We need to worship God and the King of king and Lord of lords on the day He commanded us to worship God on -- the Seventh Day Sabbath! It's time we quit acting like Vashti and start acting like Esther!

Again, Wake Up!!!
This is wonderful tthttf ... you read passages in Scripture so many times over ... and yet ... the Holy Spirit continues to reveal precious jewels ! Thank you so much !
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:48 AM
 
951 posts, read 799,244 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
I will not debate on this but think on this. The law and all the physical rituals were SHADOWS OF GOOD THINGS TO COME. Until the reality came, the shadows were a comfort. But NOW, the reality has come and we no longer need the shadow. Would you rather live in the shadow of a mansion, or the mansion itself? CHRIST was FORESHADOWED by every one of the types, including many of the main characters in scripture. Paul said the law was a schoolmaster, some even say child leader (a servant who guided his master's children to the place of the lessons), but once the object of the lessons was come, the servant was no longer needed.

The law was and is and will always be something which shows the heart of God. It speaks to restitution for wrongs done to an individual to restore both the victim and the offender. Where it is/was mpossible for a crime to be righted in this life, the offender was executed to await the judgment of God. Judgment will include restoration of BOTH parties and the judgment will be PERFECT. Scripture tells us God will replace our stony heart (THE LAW was written on tablets of stone) with a flesh heart and we will do and perform His will out of a heart of love, not in fear.

Vashti was not executed by the King for her failure to appear. The King replaced her with another, Esther. Did not Jesus say that the first would be last, that the Jews who were so sure of their place in the Kingdom on account of their devotion to the Law would be replaced by gentiles and peoples from the east and the west?

The sabbath IS Jesus. He is our rest. The seventh day speaks not only of One day out of the week, but of a special age where we will rest in Him. But we can rest in Him now. In fact we are to rest in Him. This is spiritual rest. It is God who wills in you to desire and to do His will. It is God who IS still working on man, of whom Jesus is the first finished Son, the pattern Son, if you will and ALL will be made into His likeness, in their own order. The feast days speak of a progression. Firstfruits (barley, main harvest ((wheat) and finally the end, the fall harvest (grapes).

From chm2web Web Online Help

an article by Seth Tipton entitled, "Just What Happened on that Cross?"

2 Corinthians 3:7-9 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Pop quiz: which regulations in the Law of Moses were "carved in letters on stone?" That's right, those 10 Commandments were the ONLY ones recorded in the Bible to have been carved into stone. The completion of the Law was recorded by scribes in ink. According to the Bible, the 10 Commandments are a ministry of death. And according to him, this is the same "ministry of death" which was "being brought to an end." Have you ever heard a preacher say that? Italics miine. end of quote

He did not quote verse 10, which says, "Indeed, in view of this fact, what ONCE HAD SPLENDOR (the glory of the Law in the face of Moses) has come to have NO SPLENDOR AT ALL, because of the overwhelmeing glory that exceeds and excels it (the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ). 11 For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
(Amplified Version)(Bold, italics, and all caps portions inserted by me)

Lest you think that this author is one that declares the way to the Kingdom through grace is easy, he does not. He writes that the cross Jesus suffered is the way that ALL must go to have victory over sin and death.

He has a different perspective on grace. He does not portray it as some easy forgiveness offer but as that which will chastise us when we fall into error.

I would recommend anyone who thinks we are still under the Law to read this. Also anyone who thinks grace turns a blind eye to the times we still sin.

Peace to all, and may the God of all comfort be with us in our journey to and from the Cross.
No, you are forgetting that modern Christianity is replacing what they think are "shadows" with deep dark satanic mysteries of pagan worship. Just because something has not arrived yet, doesn't mean you have to go and use a substitute instituted by the arch-enemy of God and Christ -- Satan the Devil.

Go look up the origins of Sunday-worship, Christmas and Easter. When you shine the light of the Truth based on God's Word on them these aren't the days of God, these are ancient pagan heathen ways that God's Word commands us to avoid.

Jeremiah 10:
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen...


God corrects those He is calling when they disobey His Commandments. One who professes to be a true Christian should ask, is God correcting me when I profane His Seventh Day Sabbath? Do I have a carnal mind or is my mind subject to the law of God as Romans 8:7 says it should be?


If one refuses to come before God and Christ on God's Seventh Day Sabbath, then their mind is not subject to the Spiritual Law of God.

Exodus 20:
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Today at sunset begins God's annual Holy Day -- the Day of Atonement. It pictures the binding of Satan the Devil for a 1,000 years at the beginning of the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ.


True Christians are to follow the example of Jesus Christ and the early apostles and keep the Sabbaths and Holy Days of God. We are to begin fasting at sunset and continue fasting until sunset the following evening.


How many will act like Vashti and how many will act like Esther in their obedience to the commandments, statutes and judgments found in the Word of God by which we are to live?
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:18 AM
 
951 posts, read 799,244 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
This is wonderful tthttf ... you read passages in Scripture so many times over ... and yet ... the Holy Spirit continues to reveal precious jewels ! Thank you so much !
Thank you again for your kind words. Most of the other comments will be contrary, I feel certain.

But this is actually from an older letter I wrote, but it came into my mind today. I wrote this letter to the Worldwide Church of God when they were turning away from the Sabbath and joining mainstream Christianity. It is dated 2/19/1995 but it can apply to many situations. Esther vs Vashti.


GOD HAS MANY ESTHERS TO TAKE YOUR PLACE

To the Worldwide Church of God and all Her Branches:

"On the SEVENTH day, when the heart of the KING was merry with wine, he commanded... the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the KING, To bring Vashti the queen BEFORE the KING with the crown royal...But the queen Vashti REFUSED to come at the king's COMMANDMENT...therefore was the KING very wroth, and his anger burned in him."

It has been reported that the Worldwide Church of God is watering down the Sabbath. They are now teaching that one's job is more important than coming in the presence of God the Father and the King of Kings, Jesus Christ - the one they are to be married to at His return.

Are you a Vashti? Are you now also REFUSING to keep God's Sabbath? If you are, then this is your fate:

"That Vashti come no more before KING Ahasuerus; and let the KING give her royal estate unto another that is BETTER than she."

WAKE UP, FORMER AND CURRENT MEMBERS OF THE WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD!!

Don't let some ... minister ... talk you out of being in the First Resurrection! Keep God's Sabbaths - weekly and annual as ... taught! Don't let this Laodician Church take your CROWN!!!

Again, I say, WAKE UP!! RETURN TO GOD BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!

---------
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:33 AM
 
416 posts, read 340,313 times
Reputation: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Esther 1:
10 On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,
11 To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.
12 But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.
13 Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:
15 What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?
19 If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him...That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.

King Ahasuerus was a Gentile king and he commanded Vashti to come in his presence on the seventh day of a feast. She refused to perform the commandment of the king. She was eventually replaced by Esther.

How many of you are refusing to come before the King of kings and Lord of lords on the Seventh Day? It, too, is a Commandment given to us by a great King!

If you are a true Christian and you keep Sunday instead and refuse the King's Commandment (it was Jesus Christ who spoke the Ten Commandments at Mt Sinai) and worship on some other day then your crown will be given to someone better than you!

Wake Up, America! We need to worship God and the King of king and Lord of lords on the day He commanded us to worship God on -- the Seventh Day Sabbath! It's time we quit acting like Vashti and start acting like Esther!

Again, Wake Up!!!
Wow, that's a long way to go for an allegory. The King was not commended for it.

If you're going to allegorize the text of Esther like that, what would make us think you're close to having the right understanding of the Sabbath?
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:13 PM
 
951 posts, read 799,244 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuralMissionary View Post
Wow, that's a long way to go for an allegory. The King was not commended for it.

If you're going to allegorize the text of Esther like that, what would make us think you're close to having the right understanding of the Sabbath?
We are to worship God and Christ on the appointed days listed in God's Word the Bible. In our organization we sing hymns and our prayers and actions are to be pleasing in Their sight. To have an attitude like Vashti is wrong.

Esther 1:
19 ...let the KING give her royal estate unto another that is better than she."

If a Christian is to be symbolically married to Christ, shouldn't he/she come before His presence when they are commanded. And the scriptures warn in Revelation 3 about letting no one take your crown:

Revelation 3:
11 ... hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

So, a Christian can lose their crown. Vashti lost her crown to Esther. We need to obey God and keep the Days He commands. Christ and the early apostles set us an example of keep the Sabbaths and the Holy Days.

Will modern Christianity heed the obey God and Christ or will they continue to be a Vashti and refuse?

I don't see many "Esthers" today, do you?
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:29 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 1,014,494 times
Reputation: 373
Ah yes, more legalistic gospel understanding and misunderstanding of convenants Don't worry I don't think your going to hell for it ... interestingly, I've heard there is a passage in the Talmud that the King wanted Queen Vashti to appear naked before them..anyways, when are you going to understand that no one is worshiping Pagan gods with Christmas and Easter?! Intention matters I'm sure even to those "gods". Would God burn you in hell because you say to someone "How are you doing today" and it just happens to be the same wording as some Ancient Pagan god worship chant?!..We have these traditions mostly for our kids. This is just silly.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:39 PM
 
416 posts, read 340,313 times
Reputation: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
We are to worship God and Christ on the appointed days listed in God's Word the Bible. In our organization we sing hymns and our prayers and actions are to be pleasing in Their sight. To have an attitude like Vashti is wrong.

Esther 1:
19 ...let the KING give her royal estate unto another that is better than she."

If a Christian is to be symbolically married to Christ, shouldn't he/she come before His presence when they are commanded. And the scriptures warn in Revelation 3 about letting no one take your crown:

Revelation 3:
11 ... hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

So, a Christian can lose their crown. Vashti lost her crown to Esther. We need to obey God and keep the Days He commands. Christ and the early apostles set us an example of keep the Sabbaths and the Holy Days.

Will modern Christianity heed the obey God and Christ or will they continue to be a Vashti and refuse?

I don't see many "Esthers" today, do you?
The point of Esther wasn't to point at the Pagan King and say "Wow...we need to be like HIM!". The point of Esther was that God saved his people because he's that good.

You completely missed the point of the whole book.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:07 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 1,014,494 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuralMissionary View Post
The point of Esther wasn't to point at the Pagan King and say "Wow...we need to be like HIM!". The point of Esther was that God saved his people because he's that good.

You completely missed the point of the whole book.
(As Luke Skywalker) What?! But Armstrong can do no wrong...No...thats not true...thats IMPOSSIBLE!! NOOOOOO!

Actually I don't know if Armstrong Actually taught that but given his previous posts...
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